amourducafe Senior Member Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 34 Location: Montreal Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 2:16pm Subject: Which part should I replace in my Gaggia Coffee (now known as classic)
Hello all!
So I recently cleaned and somewhat restored a Gaggia coffee which from my understanding is an older model of Gaggia Classic but without the 3way solenoid valve.
Once again, my machine has stopped producing water out of the brew group. So I disassembled the shower screen and it's brass holder and took out the little metal casing containing the little rubber valve that fits in the brew group. With the little rubber valve and casing removed, water flows out of the brew group. With the valve in place, no water passes through the group UNLESS I open the steam wand then water does flow through the steam wand but NEVER through the group no matter how long I wait.
So I've narrowed it down to two possible parts that I might need to replace. It's either:
A) something is up with the little rubber valve mechanism, perhaps the spring has lost it's flexibility and the valve is being held shut too tighly preventing the flow of water. or B) the pump is the problem. It does not create sufficient pressure to cause water to flow freely through the brew group.
Can someone please shed some light on this situation? Which part is the culprit, the valve or the pump? I can upload videos of the machine working/not working with the valve.
SJM Senior Member Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,508 Location: CA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 2:49pm Subject: Re: Which part should I replace in my Gaggia Coffee (now known as classic)
For starters your Coffee (if that is what it is) is no prior version of the Classic. There was an Old White Coffee with the Steam Knob on the Front that morphed into the Classic, but that Coffee DID have a 3-way solenoid, and Classics have always had them (along with adjustable OPV's).
That out of the way, the problem can't be your pump if you are getting steam.
The usual culprit is scale. How thoroughly did you descale the boiler? Did you run batches of Citric Acid through it? Did you open it up and do a full manual descale?
Often after a less than complete descale, bits of scale get broken loose but then get caught in the brew valve. They have been dislodged but not made small enough to get flushed all the way out. There are a couple of ways to deal with this: remove the brew valve and run a pin up into the orifice to see if you can dislodge any of the gunk that is most certainly there, or open the whole boiler and soak it....
For more information you are welcome at the Gaggia Forum which shows up in my signature. And/or of course someone or several someones here will chime in and add to or argue with my suggestions.
amourducafe Senior Member Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 34 Location: Montreal Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 3:04pm Subject: Re: Which part should I replace in my Gaggia Coffee (now known as classic)
SJM Said:
For starters your Coffee (if that is what it is) is no prior version of the Classic. There was an Old White Coffee with the Steam Knob on the Front that morphed into the Classic, but that Coffee DID have a 3-way solenoid, and Classics have always had them (along with adjustable OPV's).
That out of the way, the problem can't be your pump if you are getting steam.
The usual culprit is scale. How thoroughly did you descale the boiler? Did you run batches of Citric Acid through it? Did you open it up and do a full manual descale?
Often after a less than complete descale, bits of scale get broken loose but then get caught in the brew valve. They have been dislodged but not made small enough to get flushed all the way out. There are a couple of ways to deal with this: remove the brew valve and run a pin up into the orifice to see if you can dislodge any of the gunk that is most certainly there, or open the whole boiler and soak it....
For more information you are welcome at the Gaggia Forum which shows up in my signature. And/or of course someone or several someones here will chime in and add to or argue with my suggestions.
Thanks for the response! When I restored the machine, I did a complete strip down, opened the boiler and dremmeled all the scale outta there. I then ran a descaling solution through it. It had been working for a good couple months now and today was supposed to be it's bi/tri monthly descale (using dezcal solution).
If what you call the brew valve is the little black rubber stopper and spring contained in a little screw and bolt shaped metal casing, I have opened that valve and found no "bits" of scale in there. Like I said, without that valve, water flows out of the "orifice". I can try and prod up the "orifice" with a shishkabob skewer... I'm gonna try that now.
Also, when I opened the steam wand, I was getting WATER not steam although for the months of use I've made of the machine, I've been getting great steam and steam pressure so if that's a sign og a healthy pump, I think mine is ok.
amourducafe Senior Member Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 34 Location: Montreal Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 3:21pm Subject: Re: Which part should I replace in my Gaggia Coffee (now known as classic)
So I took some stiff metal chicken wire and prodded the "orifice" quite a few times. I got in there a good 4 inches so I suspect I was getting all the way in through the metal straw and hitting the top of the boiler. I tried to push the wire in and out a few times to dislodge any scale or obstruction and I'm still at square one: when I flick on the pump, water flows freely through the brew group UNTIL I replace the brew valve, then: nothing. I hear the pump work and work and not a drop of water comes out.
I'm doing it with a cold machine but water should still go through the group when the pump is activated. What can I do?
I suspect the spring in the brew valve is too stiff and is holding the valve shut too tightly thus the machine cannot build enough pressure to "overcome" the valve spring. I'm no coffee machine technician, I'm just going on a hunch. Any ideas of what I can do?
SJM Senior Member Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,508 Location: CA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 3:22pm Subject: Re: Which part should I replace in my Gaggia Coffee (now known as classic)
amourducafe Said:
Also, when I opened the steam wand, I was getting WATER not steam although for the months of use I've made of the machine, I've been getting great steam and steam pressure so if that's a sign of a healthy pump, I think mine is ok.
That makes sense if you had still only pushed the BREW button. The brew stat would turn the heaters off before the water in the boiler got hot enough for you to get steam.
It is possible that your brew valve needs replacing, but....really and truly it's usually (technical jargon here): gunk....
By the way, it is possible to get a small, residual amount of steam from the wand even when the pump is kaput, since there is usually still some water in the boiler, but if you are getting a solid flow of water or steam through the steam wand, then the pump really does have to be pushing it into the boiler from the reservoir. (I mention this because I recently missed a busted pump diagnosis based on a report of steam being present :-(((( )
Okay, I've run out of ideas, but once again I invite you to come over to the Gaggia forum (see my signature). There are a lot of smart Gaggia owners over there who will help you sort yourself in no time.
amourducafe Senior Member Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 34 Location: Montreal Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Tue May 1, 2012, 3:33pm Subject: Re: Which part should I replace in my Gaggia Coffee (now known as classic)
SJM Said:
Okay, I've run out of ideas, but once again I invite you to come over to the Gaggia forum (see my signature). There are a lot of smart Gaggia owners over there who will help you sort yourself in no time.
And/but there is a switch that you can turn on or off that allows you to see members' signatures. You might and might not want to see what people do put in their signatures, but if you do, just go either to your Profile or to Settings (or something like that) and change your setting.
Posted Wed May 2, 2012, 12:34am Subject: Re: Which part should I replace in my Gaggia Coffee (now known as classic)
It so totally CAN be the pump. I've seen many pumps get weak ... you can open the steam valve and the pump will pump water out the wand because the pump doesn't actually have to work very hard to do that, there is no back pressure.
Getting "steam pressure" has nothing at all to do with the pump (as long as the pump can at least put some water into the boiler so the boiler has something to "boil".
Is this the old, all metal pump that has a separate diode that clamps between the pump wire and the wiring block? If so, try replacing the diode (cheap part can be found at Radio Shack) --- I had one pump act exactly like you describe and the diode was the problem.
It can also be the valves in the pump just not sealing well so it can't build up pressure.
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