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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Gaggia Classic...  
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 441
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 9:41pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

Let's see if I follow

PID

1) a spade piggy back on the on/off switch that connects to the PID on the bare side (AC in). A second spade piggy back on the negative connect on the back plug that connects to the PID on the bare side (AC in as well?). Now, for each piggy back there is a female spade attached that goes to the controller again? I just want to verify that after this step there are 4 wires attached to the PID. I do not fully understand why the 4 wires are necessary.

2) removing the brewstat and replacing with the RTD doesn't seem too bad. The other end of the RTD connects to the PID (RID controller input). A 14 AWG jumper cable about an inch will connect two PID points?

SSR (this part gets a little hairy but bare with me)

1) There are two wires here that connect the positive and negative points on the SSR to the PID. The PID side would be bare on each wire. The other side would be fork or rings connector with a diode attached to the one going into the positive SSR point.

2) two 14 AWG wires that connect at the SSR with a ring or fork connector and on the other end are male spades. These spades connect to the two plugs that were unplugged when you installed the RTD (removed the brewstat).

Am I correct with my interpretation?

Additionally, I am having a tough time locating the wires needed. I am thinking of using this for the 14 AWG wires (https://www.skycraftsurplus.com/14awgteflonaircraftwirewhite.aspx) and this for the rest (https://www.skycraftsurplus.com/22awgteflonaircraftwireblack.aspx). They only allow min orders of 25 feet for the 22 awg and 16 for the 14 AWG. In total it comes to about $15 dollars shipped. All the wires i'm finding locally cant handle the heat or cost much more than the skycraftsurplus.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 9:55pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

brianl Said:

Let's see if I follow

PID

1) a spade piggy back on the on/off switch that connects to the PID on the bare side (AC in). A second spade piggy back on the negative connect on the back plug that connects to the PID on the bare side (AC in as well?). Now, for each piggy back there is a female spade attached that goes to the controller again? I just want to verify that after this step there are 4 wires attached to the PID. I do not fully understand why the 4 wires are necessary.

Inserted reply: one wire from front switch and one from the back plug, 2 total, both legs of AC

2) removing the brewstat and replacing with the RTD doesn't seem too bad. The other end of the RTD connects to the PID (RID controller input). A 14 AWG jumper cable about an inch will connect two PID points?

Inserted: Not 14 avg, just whatever small wire that you are using

SSR (this part gets a little hairy but bare with me)

1) There are two wires here that connect the positive and negative points on the SSR to the PID. The PID side would be bare on each wire. The other side would be fork or rings connector with a diode attached to the one going into the positive SSR point.  

Inserted: Yes

2) two 14 AWG wires that connect at the SSR with a ring or fork connector and on the other end are male spades. These spades connect to the two plugs that were unplugged when you installed the RTD (removed the brewstat).

Am I correct with my interpretation?

Reply: Yes

Additionally, I am having a tough time locating the wires needed. I am thinking of using this for the 14 AWG wires (https://www.skycraftsurplus.com/14awgteflonaircraftwirewhite.aspx) and this for the rest (https://www.skycraftsurplus.com/22awgteflonaircraftwireblack.aspx). They only allow min orders of 25 feet for the 22 awg and 16 for the 14 AWG. In total it comes to about $15 dollars shipped. All the wires i'm finding locally cant handle the heat or cost much more than the skycraftsurplus.

Posted February 21, 2013 link

Note reply/inserts within the quote.

Sounds like that wire will work.  I have their teflon 26 awg Mil Spec.  Great wire, teflon is tough.  Hope your wire strippers are good.  I an not sure how flexible the 14 awg is, but probably fine.  I use the silicone superflex from hobby use as I am familiar and it is flexible.  Actually, there is not much flex required in the machine, flexible is just wasier to work with.

Near you?

Click Here (www.frys.com)

Most Fry's now have a reasonable electronics supply now.

Let me know when you are ready to talk power supply and hookup.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:23pm
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

A couple of helpful articles that fit with the current discussion.

Click Here (www.thedomesticbarista.com)

Click Here (newsgroups.derkeiler.com)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 441
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 7:15am
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

for number 1) you say, "then a female spade with small awg from each piggyback to the controller.  That is power to the controller." what is the female spade? A female spade would be one of these? Click Here (www.allelectronics.com)

or are you referring to the original wires that were plugged in the on/off and back plug that the piggybacks are currently in? Connecting those into the piggyback?
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 10:15am
Subject: Re: PID Controller supplies and directions for Gaggia and SBDU
 

I can see the possible source of confusion.  See this site

Click Here (www.crowbarelectricalparts.com)

Some piggybacks have the wire mated to the connector and some, like the gold one, just split the connector and you add the original female and the new female with wire.  The bottom type also come stacked, piggyback, instead of side by side.  If you find and use the top type, then the wire is included.  The result, however you do it, is the ability to have the original connection and a new addition.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 441
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 10:25am
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

okay thanks. we are all set! I have ordered some parts and all. I'll see how that goes and then order the PID stuff. Then after the PID is up and running do I add the DC for the two alarms? Or is it best to just do it all at once?

I guess it comes down to the connections to the SSR + and - points. Is it best to add all three wires going into each to one ring connector or have each wire with its own ring connector and then attach all three ring connectors to each of the SSR - and +?
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 11:28am
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

All of the wiring ends up in a "bundle" out the back of the machine going to the controller.  The Auber kit has "spiral cut" tubing that you can get on and off easily, seen on your Auber instructions.  I have seen it at Fry's Electronics also.  It is just a spiral cut piece of silicone tubing.  You will want to wrap, spiral wrap, or possibly tape the wires together.  The spiral wrap allows you to put it on and take it off, as would something like tape.  

All that is to say that you want to get the wires together.  I used a piece of shrink wrap, without shrinking, to enclose the wires and I would have to thread any new connection through that.  I did it once when I changed PID controllers and added the second alarm function.  You want to understand the wires and make them all up including the 3 wires at the ring connector.  If not, then you will be adding a wire to the already soldered ring and working around the machine or taking everything apart.  

I would make up everything and test the connections and continuity and then start with the controller running the idle temperature only.  When satisfied, add one powersupply at a time.  Very easy if the wiring is done, simply plug and play :)

Where are you going to put the controller.  I fill my water tank by sliding it forward up to the water pickup tube and pouring water from the side.  My machine is under a counter so I fill from the side instead of from the top.  My controller sits on the top, not attached.  If you are going to tape it to the side of the machine what about a box?  

Ready to hear about power supply and wiring?

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 441
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 11:41am
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

It sounds like you suggest connecting all three wires going to each SSR + and - using just one ring connector for each SSR + and -? It does sound like itd be hard to screw down 3 ring connectors on the SSR + and -. Is this best accomplished by soldering all the wires together first and then putting in the ring connector?

For the positive SSR: it will have three wires attached. The three wires will each have a diode attached. The three diodes will be soldered together to a small piece of wire. that wire will be crimped to a ring connector that will be screwed down in the SSR.

For the negative SSR: it will have the three wires attached without the diode attached. the three wires will be soldered together to a small piece of wire. that wire will be crimped to a ring connector that will be screwed down to the SSR.

Sure, i'm ready for the next part! :)
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 11:53am
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

I twisted the 3 wires and soldered directly to the ring connector.  The connector for 3 pieces of 22 awg would most likely be the 14 awg connector.  If your iron will do that you can directly solder, or interpose the single piece of splice wire.  Works fine however you connect it.

Next up, power supply and connections :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 441
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:04pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia SBDU Preheat PID Temperature Recovery and Stability, Steam
 

So when you say interpose the the splice wire. Are you saying to twist the three wires together and then jam it into the ring connector per normal and crimp? No soldering needed?

or to solder the three wires to one single wire and then crimp that to the ring connector?
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