Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Mods and Restorations
element removal....well, trying to!
Rocket R58 Double Boiler
Rocket Espresso R58 Double Boiler -  Everything you need for the perfect shot!
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > element...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
Author Messages
jannus
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 66
Location: South Africa, Cape Town
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS ElliMatic & OLD Via...
Grinder: mazzer sj
Vac Pot: nope
Drip: yup
Roaster: nope
Posted Wed Aug 28, 2013, 2:30pm
Subject: element removal....well, trying to!
 

Hello everyone,

My NS Ellimatic is in pieces, being descaled and cleaned.  As part of this I want to remove the element, and hopefully the hx as well.  Problem I cant get either to budge, and I dont want to damage anything.  The boiler is copper, so again I don't want to bend and warp it.  I've sprayed release oil over several days, but no go.  Also, holding on to the nut inside the boiler (which will make me feel less careful) seems impossible with the angles and things in the way.

What am I missing!?  :-)  Can I use heat?  Is there some trick I just don't know?  

Feeling a bit lost, some pointers would be most helpful!

Thanks,
Jan
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,351
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Wed Aug 28, 2013, 2:59pm
Subject: Re: element removal....well, trying to!
 

If the "nut" that is brazed onto the boiler is quite thin you will need a service wrench or equivalent to fit it. They someplace like HarborFreight. The heating element can be held in a vise possibly and then unscrew the boiler from the element.  That will make it easier to get a "feel" for what is happening. heating the boiler with a torch, evenly and SLOWLY to around 200-220 degrees (drops of water on the metal are good indicators), and chilling the element's mount with a wet rag to create a shrinkage/expansion between the two should do it. Slowly increasing the force on teh wrench is advised- no pounding or frustrated, forceful thrusts- this isn't like a fun Saturday night at the frat house..   :-O

 
Visit My Website
www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
NSElliIterator
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 25
Location: Surrey, BC
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS Ellimatic
Grinder: NS MDXA
Drip: Bodum
Posted Wed Aug 28, 2013, 5:38pm
Subject: Re: element removal....well, trying to!
 

Hi janus,

I've been there.  I ended up wrecking the insulation inside my heater element as a result of taking a few short cuts "descaling" my Ellimatic.  Once I knew the heater element was a write off it was easy to break off the heater coil in order to gain easy access to the interior heater terminal nuts.  IIRC it helps to grasp the interior heater nuts in order to tighten the exterior heater element nuts when putting it back together with a working heater element.  I agree that the boiler walls are thin and easy to warp out of shape but as I discovered the boiler shell material can be somewhat reworked into shape to accommodate the heater coil during reassembly.  The 1400 W replacement heater coil was shaped differently from the original heater element in a way that permitted me to gain access to the interior nuts more easily during reassembly.

The interior view with all but the heater terminals plus interior nuts removed:

NSElliIterator: 044534(1).JPG
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
jannus
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 66
Location: South Africa, Cape Town
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS ElliMatic & OLD Via...
Grinder: mazzer sj
Vac Pot: nope
Drip: yup
Roaster: nope
Posted Thu Aug 29, 2013, 1:30am
Subject: Re: element removal....well, trying to!
 

frcn Said:

If the "nut" that is brazed onto the boiler is quite thin you will need a service wrench or equivalent to fit it. They someplace like HarborFreight. The heating element can be held in a vise possibly and then unscrew the boiler from the element.  That will make it easier to get a "feel" for what is happening. heating the boiler with a torch, evenly and SLOWLY to around 200-220 degrees (drops of water on the metal are good indicators), and chilling the element's mount with a wet rag to create a shrinkage/expansion between the two should do it. Slowly increasing the force on teh wrench is advised- no pounding or frustrated, forceful thrusts- this isn't like a fun Saturday night at the frat house..   :-O

Posted August 28, 2013 link

Holding the element nut in a bench vise sounds like a very good idea.  The heating / shrinkage idea sounds great, and I suspect will also be what I will use to get the damn drain plug off!  Just confirm, 200 degrees C or F?  Celsius sounds right, but you're in Fahrenheit country, so just figured I'd confirm!  I'll give both approaches a go later this evening when I've got a gap.  
Sorry to hear about your frat house frustrations.  ;)


NSElliIterator Said:

I've been there.  I ended up wrecking the insulation inside my heater element as a result of taking a few short cuts "descaling" my Ellimatic.  Once I knew the heater element was a write off it was easy to break off the heater coil in order to gain easy access to the interior heater terminal nuts.  IIRC it helps to grasp the interior heater nuts in order to tighten the exterior heater element nuts when putting it back together with a working heater element.  I agree that the boiler walls are thin and easy to warp out of shape but as I discovered the boiler shell material can be somewhat reworked into shape to accommodate the heater coil during reassembly.  The 1400 W replacement heater coil was shaped differently from the original heater element in a way that permitted me to gain access to the interior nuts more easily during reassembly.

Posted August 28, 2013 link

Wow, sounds like a painful experience!  Good to know panelbeating is possible, though...will probably take some time doing that just to ensure that everything seals afterwards!  

Is there an easy way to confirm whether the heater element is damaged if nothing is visually wrong?  I would imagine it should show resistance one can calculate from Ohms law, and also no conductivity between the element and the casing - anything else?  I'd be really mad at myself if I go through the whole thing only to find out on first startup that it was blown in any case.

Thanks for the tips!  :)

Jan
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Aug 29, 2013, 6:01am
Subject: Re: element removal....well, trying to!
 

That would be deg F

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
NSElliIterator
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 25
Location: Surrey, BC
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS Ellimatic
Grinder: NS MDXA
Drip: Bodum
Posted Thu Aug 29, 2013, 9:56am
Subject: Re: element removal....well, trying to!
 

and I suspect will also be what I will use to get the damn drain plug off!

click here addresses stuck Ellimatic boiler drain plugs!

Is there an easy way to confirm whether the heater element is damaged if nothing is visually wrong?  I would imagine it should show resistance one can calculate from Ohms law, and also no conductivity between the element and the casing - anything else?

 Can't think of anything other than the obvious double check of your lower boiler half assembly with a multimeter before you seal it all away by reattaching the top boiler half.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,351
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Thu Aug 29, 2013, 10:10am
Subject: Re: element removal....well, trying to!
 

calblacksmith Said:

That would be deg F

Posted August 29, 2013 link

Thanks, Wayne..
Yes, F, that is correct, and why water drops are a good indicator of the temperature of the metal.

 
Visit My Website
www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Aug 30, 2013, 8:54am
Subject: Re: element removal....well, trying to!
 

:D
For me, the giveaway was the water!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,351
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Fri Aug 30, 2013, 9:31am
Subject: Re: element removal....well, trying to!
 

I learned that watching a BMW motorcycle mechanic change the output bearing on a transmission cover. The bearings are just a press fit into the aluminum and he used a propane torch to heat the alloy until the water danced. At that point he turned the cover over, gave it a tap on the bench, and the bearing fell out on its own.

 
Visit My Website
www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
jannus
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 66
Location: South Africa, Cape Town
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS ElliMatic & OLD Via...
Grinder: mazzer sj
Vac Pot: nope
Drip: yup
Roaster: nope
Posted Fri Aug 30, 2013, 10:18am
Subject: Re: element removal....well, trying to!
 

ok, so at about 200 degrees F I will notice waterdrops on the metal?  It rings a bell, so I must've seen if somewhere!  :-)

Just also confirm - I have it in my head that the element terminals should not see moisture.  Correct?
I've actually applied a bit of silicone over the terminals for that reason...better safe than sorry I figured! :-)

I've still not had a gap to try this, hopefully the weekend will afford the opportunity.

Thanks!
Jan
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > element...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Rancilio Silvia - How to
Step by step guide for easy brewing and steaming with the Rancilio Silvia
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.280977964401)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+