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Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > Any "recovery"...  
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bharsh
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bharsh
Joined: 7 Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Location: Cary, NC
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:25pm
Subject: Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
 

Almost brand-new machine (yet 10 years old) - evidently never really worked for the original owners, and knowing I liked to tinker with my LaPavoni Duet to keep it running long past its expected life, they just gave it to me in frustration.

It powers up, enters the "fill" phase when it tells you to press the "Steam" button, then the pump buzzes and never draws water.

I've removed filter, ensured tank is clean and drains okay, checked for water at the metal strainer entering the machine.  Haven't disassembled yet because I don't have the right (tiny) hex/star tools.

Just wondering if this is a common thing and see if there's any advice here.  Jura customer service said to just keep pressing steam and it will eventually start up but I don't want to leave it heating that long with no water in the boilers.  No local service/dealers in Raleigh that I know of.  

Thanks in advance.

Brent
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,042
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
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Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 1:56pm
Subject: Re: Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
 

Welcome to the board.

Information on that machine will likely be hard to come by. We have a few members who work on them as a business but for the most part, the members here do not use superautomatic machines, we prefer a more hands on method to our brewing.

Good luck!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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bharsh
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bharsh
Joined: 7 Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Location: Cary, NC
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 9:24pm
Subject: Re: Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
 

Thanks Wayne - I understand; any tips would be appreciated though.  I had turned my old "Duet" (which was a pretty brain-dead machine with a pressurized portafilter) into something that could pull a pretty good shot when not using the pressurized filter (still weak on steaming in volume though and temp consistency was hard - kind of a manual adjustment using steam setting for a few seconds).  I got 12 years out of it, replacing the boiler bottoms twice, but when finally the plastic water diverter unit broke that LaPavoni says they can't supply anymore, I started looking around - I'm pretty sure I'll wind up with a Brewtus - but then remembered this S9 in the garage and figured I need to at least try to get it running, if for no other reason than to sell to offset the Brewtus cost... but honestly my wife might actually like the S9's ease of use and probably wouldn't notice the quality difference!  If any of the members are in RTP/NC area who might work on them, post me back!
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jannus
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Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 71
Location: South Africa, Cape Town
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS ElliMatic & few...
Grinder: mazzer sj
Vac Pot: nope
Drip: yup
Roaster: nope
Posted Tue Nov 12, 2013, 5:21am
Subject: Re: Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
 

Hi Brent,

I've recently worked on a Saeco superauto that has also been standing for quite a while.  Upon initial powerup it gave me similar problems - the pump runs but doesn't draw water.  In my case, the pump was also vastly louder than it was supposed to be.  

What turned out to be the problem was that all water in the tubing to the pump had dried up, and so the pump was pumping air, which it's not good at.  That also explained the loud noise.  I was lucky, just leaving it sitting with a full tank of water for a few hours eventually let enough water trickle all the way to the pump, so it came alive.  If you're not lucky, you'll probably need to open it up and manually work the water all the way to the pump.  Perhaps you can use a syringe with some nylon tube or similar, depending on what's in the way.  

If the machine has been standing long enough for that to happen, though, it'll probably be worth your while opening it up in anycase.  Being a Jura, the brew group is probably in horrific condition from standing so long, seeing as the brew group is not user-serviceable.

I've not worked on Juras, but I found the following disassembly and cleaning instructions that look helpful.  

Click Here (www.buessert.de)

Cheers,
Jan
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bharsh
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bharsh
Joined: 7 Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Location: Cary, NC
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Thu Nov 14, 2013, 8:14pm
Subject: Re: Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
 

Thanks Jan - that is a very nice link with great details to help me out!  I'd been Googling and that one had never come up for me.  Hopefully will get some time this weekend to tear into things and see what it looks like in there.  I agree that it sure sounds like your air-in-the-hose problem but I did try leaving the tank for a day or two and turning it on a couple times a day, but no luck for me.  Didn't think of trying to syringe some down into it though - that's a good though.  We'll see!
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jannus
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Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 71
Location: South Africa, Cape Town
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS ElliMatic & few...
Grinder: mazzer sj
Vac Pot: nope
Drip: yup
Roaster: nope
Posted Thu Nov 14, 2013, 10:43pm
Subject: Re: Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
 

Pleasure!  I hope it helps...  I've found the relative complexity of superauto's fascinating, although maybe it's just because I've been in luck with fixing pretty much all of the ones I've worked on so far.  I gather you also like tinkering, so have a go!  :)  My wife initially didn't want the superauto in the house at all, and nowadays she's the one using it most often.  No, it doesn't make great coffee, but it's streets better than anything in any shop close by, and ready in record time.  I love my HX machine, but the superauto has a place as well, if just for convenience.  

Just too bad there are practically no Jura service manuals out there...  Several Saeco manuals float around, but I've yet to see a Jura one.

Regarding the pump - don't run it dry if you can help it.  From what I understand the pumps can get damaged if run dry for too long - personally I try not to take the chance.

Good luck, and keep us posted!   :)
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bharsh
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bharsh
Joined: 7 Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Location: Cary, NC
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat Nov 16, 2013, 12:04am
Subject: Re: Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
 

Whoo hoo!  Short story: pump was actually getting water from inlet, just was dry internally and something was sealing the bubble to prevent the flow, I guess.  I tried the syringe Jan suggested but wasn't quite enough, so rigged up a Platypus drinking bladder and forced it to go.  Took a couple of moderate-pressure squeezes on it, and it burped, and away we went.

Long story with pics: Click Here (brentharsh.blogspot.com)

It pulled a shot, but definitely not good yet - way too fast, thin, and maybe even too hot (which seems odd for a superauto, I'd have expected too cool) - but lots of parameters to play with in the grind settings and programming.  It is an engineering marvel for sure...

I sure appreciate the advice here even if not the usual thing discussed - Jan was right on!

Cheers...
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bharsh
Senior Member
bharsh
Joined: 7 Nov 2013
Posts: 5
Location: Cary, NC
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat Nov 16, 2013, 12:07am
Subject: Re: Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
 

And wow, is the web spooky these days: the ads I see here on CoffeeGeek are for the tiny Wiha hex driver tools I was looking for until I discovered the Jura has a custom oval-head screw which why mine wouldn't work.  They know what I'm looking for!
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jannus
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 71
Location: South Africa, Cape Town
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: NS ElliMatic & few...
Grinder: mazzer sj
Vac Pot: nope
Drip: yup
Roaster: nope
Posted Sat Nov 16, 2013, 7:33am
Subject: Re: Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
 

Congrats!!!  well done, glad you got it running again.  

Enjoy playing around, there's indeed a myriad of options, and yet it always feels like too little. Nonetheless as important as a manual machine to set up correctly and properly.  Also, for superutos, watch the type of bean, and the way it's roasted.  Anything too oily, and the brew group will get clogged in no time.  

People also tend to run way too much water through way too little coffee, resulting in a vile, overextracted cup.  I've found it best to try set it up like a mix between espresso and filter coffee.  The taste of what's in the cup is your best guide.  With some playing around, you can get something drinkable from it, with very little fuss, and on short notice.

well documented story, was a good read!  Thanks!

Enjoy!
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dbharsh
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Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 1
Location: Cary, NC
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Tue Nov 19, 2013, 6:14am
Subject: Re: Any "recovery" tips for Jura-Capresso S9?
 

I'm enjoying playing around for sure and thanks for the tip on the clogging!  Fortunately I learned what made a good bean roast a few years back: Counter Culture Roasters are just a few miles away and they offer tastings and tours on Friday mornings in Durham.  I liked their Toscano blend the best - and when I first saw it thought it looked "terrible": the beans weren't all black and shiny like others I'd used, they looked dry and old - ha ha ha.  Now I know.  But I will have to be careful not to go too fine or try to pack too much in.

I pulled what I consider my first "good" shot with the S9 a few minutes ago, but had to use the bypass chute and ground the beans with my old Duet grinder which I'd already modified to give a finer grind than stock.  *16* grams (!) on the finest grind for a single: the pre-infusion phase didn't leak out, the shot took longer but still had a good flow (I forgot to count this time - previously they were about 5 to 8 seconds, way too fast).  Coffee had quite a bit more body, there were no chunky grounds in the cup, and it had pretty good flavor - although the sour notes of the Toscano roast were too prevalent.  

At this point, I'm going to want to see if the grinder on the S9 can be modified in a similar way as the Duet to go finer: it's set to the finest setting, and yet the grounds look like drip grounds.  On the Duet grinder, you can pop the hopper off, rotate it to another set of mounting holes, and then keep turning the burrs closer - just be careful not to get too close or you'll be shaving metal!  I know I can also adjust the brew temp on the S9, but I never invested in a thermocouple, so I don't know exactly where it's starting at yet.  Unfortunately the S9 only says things like "cooler, hot, hotter" in its menu and doesn't show the actual degrees :)

Fun fun fun - time for another!
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