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Volume of heated water in HX to brew
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Scott_G
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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 14
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia, Saecos, Gaggia,...
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Roaster: stovetop
Posted Sun Apr 20, 2014, 12:53pm
Subject: Volume of heated water in HX to brew
 

I'm working on an espresso machine which needs a new HX setup inside the boiler. The previous design used a small tank inside the main boiler, and had a total volume close to 200mL. This design had the disadvantage creating a gas volume inside the heat exchanger, as the inlet tube was not at the top of the small tank, and it's also impossible to drain without disassembly.

Does anyone know the volume of water heated in a HX setup running to the group for a smaller single group espresso machine? I suppose 200mL could work, but it seems a little much.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Apr 21, 2014, 6:39am
Subject: Re: Volume of heated water in HX to brew
 

The volume of the HX will be different for each machine, the service it was intended to be used for etc.

I don't understand the issue you are having with the manufacturers design. The HX WILL fill completely, it may take a few volume exchanges to happen but it will happen. As to draining it, again I am not sure why you would want to???

When you venture out on your own for design, you then become the designer, you set the parameters, you do the calculations, you determine the service duty.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Scott_G
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 14
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia, Saecos, Gaggia,...
Grinder: Cunill, Skerton
Drip: moka pots, french press,...
Roaster: stovetop
Posted Mon Apr 21, 2014, 2:27pm
Subject: Re: Volume of heated water in HX to brew
 

With the HX espresso machine I bought, the seller said the boiler was emptied, but the inner hx chamber was most likely not emptied. When it arrived, the bottom of the hx was blown out and sitting in the boiler. Since it did have to ship over the mountains, it most likely froze the remaining water in the HX. The current design fills from near the top of the HX chamber, and has a dip tube that pulls from near the bottom of the chamber. I personally prefer the design where the inlet is in the bottom & outlet is on the top of the HX. The old HX needs to come out and I'll probably be playing with a TIG welder this coming weekend :-)
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skydragondave
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Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted Mon Apr 21, 2014, 4:25pm
Subject: Re: Volume of heated water in HX to brew
 

You should be seeking restitution from the buyer for this shipping mistake. He damaged the machine by not preparing it properly for shipping. But if you are determined to repair this yourself, understand that you are working with a pressure vessel, the repair you make is going to come in contact with potable water, and that water under pressure can release with explosive force so you need to be extremely careful here and be sure that your weld joints are solid.
Most HX tubes are affixed with NSF rated silver solder and are brazed in place. This is because silver solder can be worked at a lower temperature than the copper's melting point, and has less chance of cracking due to stress risers. Directly welded copper joints are not unheard of, but are usually done under very controlled automated conditions. Do this repair at your own risk. Good luck
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Apr 22, 2014, 6:17am
Subject: Re: Volume of heated water in HX to brew
 

Yep, the seller is the party who should be paying for this. Draining the boiler is not enough. It should have been flushed with Antifreeze, there would be no issue if it had been done.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Scott_G
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 14
Location: Des Moines
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia, Saecos, Gaggia,...
Grinder: Cunill, Skerton
Drip: moka pots, french press,...
Roaster: stovetop
Posted Tue May 20, 2014, 2:27pm
Subject: Re: Volume of heated water in HX to brew
 

I figured no real harm done as long as I could do the repair.

I've been travelling for work, but here's an update. I cut out the heat exchanger and welded it back together. After welding everything together, it's all holding pressure with no leaks. Sadly, I had to use SS flux core with the MIG (no TIG until autumn), so it's not pretty but works great. Until I run some numbers and figure out what is the ideal volume for my HX (time to break out the thermodynamics books), it'll be easier to keep the internal volume the same. Eventually, I'd like to add a hot water tap and redo the boiler for my volumes of consumption.
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