NovaBrewer Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2005 Posts: 25 Location: Northern Virginia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Espresso Grinder: Mr. Coffee :-( Drip: Black and Decker :-(
Posted Wed Jan 5, 2005, 12:42pm Subject: Gaggia Carezza Stock and Espresso
First off, I would like to send a big thanks to the participants of this forum. I have been browsing for the last week or so and have learned a lot. You have confirmed my suspicion that I will not be able to get an acceptable espresso machine at Target.
I cannot justify a lot of money on an espresso machine. I have read a number of good comments about the Gaggia Carezza and the $200 price sound good. I would pull the trigger and order one, but it does not seem that anybody has them in stock. What is up with that?
I have read that the Espresso, Evolution and Coffee have the same basic internals. Would I be just as happy with an Espresso that also sells for $200 and is in stock? The Evolution is a nice looking machine but I am not sure that is worth another $50, and I don't see the reason for spending 50% more for the Coffee.
Posted Wed Jan 5, 2005, 1:00pm Subject: Re: Gaggia Carezza Stock and Espresso
Good call. (And welcome to CoffeeGeek)
The Espresso model should perform every bit as well as a Carezza. Have you checked out these people yet? http://www.electra-craft.com/refurbished-machines.htm You may be able to save a few pennies.
Now, which grinder are you getting? You can't make good espresso without a good grinder!
Posted Wed Jan 5, 2005, 2:11pm Subject: Re: Gaggia Carezza Stock and Espresso
I bought a Carezza in early Dec. and $200 is a reasonable price, although you might save $5 or $10 by shopping around. There are several Gaggia Espresso's and Classics on Ebay right now.
I also found in my research that the Espresso, Coffee, Carrezza and Evolutions all have the same internal workings. The main difference is the size of the water reservoirs and cosmetic appearance. The Classic and Baby have the 3 way valve, but that would have no major effect on the taste of the espresso. Just pick the one that appeals to you.
Like Jon said...plan on spending almost an equal amount on a grinder, if you don't already have a GOOD one. I started with a Capresso Infinity and got OK, but inconsistent results. I bought a Rocky Doserless for Christmas and I think it's quite a bit better with a more consistent grind, less dust in the grounds and wider adjustment range. I had to get a stash of decaf beans so I wouldn't get wired tasting my practice shots.
With a good grinder in hand, I think you'll find any of the Gaggia's to be a good machine, capable of equaling or surpassing anything you're likely to be able to buy in your local coffee shops.
Good luck! Be sure and come back and let us know how your search turns out.
-- Tom
"Modesty is for those who have no Talent!" Lazarus Long
CremaPhile Senior Member Joined: 5 Nov 2004 Posts: 269 Location: Brooklyn, NY Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: Gaggia Espresso Grinder: Innova I2 Drip: French Press
Posted Wed Jan 5, 2005, 3:09pm Subject: Re: Gaggia Carezza Stock and Espresso
I got the espresso model for xmas, and its great (except for the silly steam wand). In fact, without having any hands on experience with the Carezza, I think its a better choice than the Carezza. I've read that the drip tray on the Carezza is so small its almost worthless. The drip tray on the Espresso is a decent size, and I think the machine in general looks a little classier. The Carezza just looks cheap to me. The Espresso also has a cup warmer on top, although it doesn't work that well, it adds a nice aesthetic appeal seeing some cups atop the machine. Either way you go, they will make the same espresso, so its just a matter of which you like best cosmetically. Read the consumer reviews for each and see what people say about drip tray size, reservoire size, and ergonomics (spelling?) if these things matter a lot to you. Otherwise, I'm sure you'll be happy with either one. And they both come with the same crappy turbo froth wand. I'm looking into swapping mine out for something real. Happy shopping!
Oh, one more cosmetic note...with either machine, if you are looking at used/refurbished models, be aware that the older models come with a slightly different portafilter. Same size, but the bottom of the old ones have two holes drilled in the bottom for spouts, the newer ones ship with the slightly sexier (imho) screw on pro-style double spout (although its plastic) pictured here. Just another minor aesthetic difference.
NovaBrewer Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2005 Posts: 25 Location: Northern Virginia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Espresso Grinder: Mr. Coffee :-( Drip: Black and Decker :-(
Posted Wed Jan 5, 2005, 3:31pm Subject: Re: Gaggia Carezza Stock and Espresso
I noticed the refurbished unit, but looks like I was too slow, as it seems to be gone. I was looking at a couple Gaggia's on eBay, but I am not a huge fan of auctions.
A grinder? I was afraid somebody would mention that. I have a fairly cheap burr grinder that I will have to start off with. The Gaggia would be a huge step up from the Krupps steamer that I was using (until it died). I was able to make an enjoyable iced mocha using the Krupps, but that was about it.
We will see. I got a decent bonus at work last month, but now my wife is giving me some story about spending all our money on Christmas, having to borrow from saving, and maybe having to sell off one of the kids. Oh well, as long as I can make a latte in the morning!
Posted Fri Jan 7, 2005, 8:38am Subject: Re: Gaggia Carezza Stock and Espresso
The Gaggia Espresso from Whole Latte Love for $199.00 delivered to your door looks like a winner. You can continue to use your old burr grinder until you can buy a better one. I agree with you about buying an espresso machine on ebay. You never know what you are going to get. Lots of folks have gotten good machines off ebay, a lot of them have been burned. To me it is not worth the risk.
Posted Mon Jan 10, 2005, 6:50am Subject: Re: Gaggia Carezza Stock and Espresso
CremaPhile Said:
Oh, one more cosmetic note...with either machine, if you are looking at used/refurbished models, be aware that the older models come with a slightly different portafilter. Same size, but the bottom of the old ones have two holes drilled in the bottom for spouts, the newer ones ship with the slightly sexier (imho) screw on pro-style double spout (although its plastic) pictured here. Just another minor aesthetic difference.
You have more clearance with the older PF so you can use a taller cup.
If you cheat your Gaggia up to temp by a pulling blank steam shot (this can get warm up time down to about 3 min 30 secs from dead cold), the new PF will spray water sideways while the old one dumps it straight down. This also comes into effect if you pump water into the boiler to cool it down after steaming (good for machine health and when you are making several batches of drinks and milk).
The plastic spout can break (fixable by replacing with the pro brass one), is another thing to clean and won't always line up nicely.
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