hyacinth Senior Member Joined: 14 May 2004 Posts: 228 Location: earth Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005, 1:10pm Subject: Why is the 'THERMOBLOC' so despised by many GEEKS
I mean, they foam at the mouth when they hear 'THERMOBLOC'!
Is steam the issue? Brew temp? Or are they just acting like purist geeks?
I read this bit on boiler vs. thermobloc, which states "perhaps because of it's origins on the inside of commercial machines, some people consider the boiling system superior, but it really comes down to personal preference and the way the manufacturer has optimized the heating system for his own machine."
Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005, 1:43pm Subject: Re: Why is the 'THERMOBLOC' so despised by many GEEKS
hyacinth Said:
I mean, they foam at the mouth when they hear 'THERMOBLOC'!
Is steam the issue? Brew temp? Or are they just acting like purist geeks?
I read this bit on boiler vs. thermobloc, which states "perhaps because of it's origins on the inside of commercial machines, some people consider the boiling system superior, but it really comes down to personal preference and the way the manufacturer has optimized the heating system for his own machine."
Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005, 2:04pm Subject: Re: Why is the 'THERMOBLOC' so despised by many GEEKS
Some info from Coffeekid.com:
Thermoblocks Usually marketed by Krups, Capresso, Delonghi and other companies, Thermoblocks are technically espresso machines (in that they are pump driven), but the heating element inside is, for the most part, inadequate for the rather complex task of producing espresso and steamed milk. The thermoblocks are akin to a car radiator - water is flash heated as it passes through. They tend to give under extracted shots because the piping inside the thermoblock leeches away your high pressure. Steam power and longevity is also questionable because of the lack of adequate airspace to build up steam pressure. Avoid if possible.
Thermobloc machines made well can produce great shots with a reasonable temp profile (GAGGIA). Most don't have the power to keep the temp up through a normal 2 ounce shot (that is they can't heat well enough on the fly to maintain the correct brew temp through the shot). Some can be "fooled" a little by hitting the steam switch for a few seconds to start at a higher brew temp.
Yikes, that first picture looks exactly what I got from the free tin of pods that came with my X5. Needless to say, there's still 10 pods in the tin. Anybody want them {:^0
You got me! I stand corrected with my head held down in shame. You're right, GAGGIA machines have Aluminum boilers with dual heating elements (not thermoblocks).
Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005, 5:42pm Subject: Re: Why is the 'THERMOBLOC' so despised by many GEEKS
thermoblock units that i have tried made substandard shots
i don't know if its the thermoblock design, the way the pump works with it, or just the mahines in general
what i do know, is that to me, they only taste a notch above a senseo
i haven't read your article, and i really don't plan to -- 99% of articles about espresso machines i've read in major magazines and newspapers about espresso machines tend to call them "perfectly acceptable" and a "great cup of almost-cafe quality". that leads me to wonder where the (*#^&$ the cafes they visit are.
after having been sourced by journalists in a few magazine articles, and reading several articles in which i was one of 3 people in a given situation (aside from the journalist) and knowing their entire recount of the proceedings was fabricated to make a good story i feel very confident in saying this: people who write articles for magazines that are reviews or features rarely know what they're talking about, more often than not have no idea what they're talking about, and generally make stuff up to sell their articles.
take anything you read with a grain of salt. if you're considering a thermoblock solution, let me suggest this -- don't listen to anyone else and try before you buy.
then you'll see yourself VERY QUICKLY run away from the thermoblock and into the arms of a boiler or hx.
Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005, 6:21pm Subject: Re: Why is the 'THERMOBLOC' so despised by many GEEKS
The QuickMill machines are supposed to be capable of good espresso shots but they are a far cry from the normal thermoblock machine as they use a rather expensive copper thermoblock while most of these machines have a cheap aluminium (sometimes lined) thermoblock. I have no idea how the QuickMills get around the pressure reduction that the cheap thermoblocks suffer from (hence their universal use of pressurised PFs). Also, the cheap thermoblocks tend to get dissolved due to the conditions they operate in.
Steaming is also an issue with almost all thermoblock machines as they have a very small heat reserve vs any machine with a boiler so they can only generate as much steam as their heating elements can directly supply for the conversion from room temp water to boling temp water to steam (the phase change takes quite a lot of energy). This limits their steam output to quite low levels vs any boiler machine that i have come across.
warren Senior Member Joined: 8 Jun 2004 Posts: 194 Location: melbourne (Aus.) Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Lux Vac Pot: NUP Drip: Yes I am Roaster: $20 heatgun
Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005, 8:11pm Subject: Re: Why is the 'THERMOBLOC' so despised by many GEEKS
kaanage Said:
The QuickMill machines are supposed to be capable of good espresso shots but they are a far cry from the normal thermoblock machine as they use a rather expensive copper thermoblock
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