MarshallF Senior Member Joined: 1 Jun 2003 Posts: 465 Location: Los Angeles Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Dalla Corte Mini Grinder: Cimbali Max, Solis Maestro Vac Pot: Hario Nouveau, Bodum ESantos Drip: Bodum French Presses, Chemex Roaster: None
Posted Tue Feb 8, 2005, 12:39am Subject: Bionic Zaffiro
CoffeeGeek columnist, Michael Teahan, has just finished an interesting, entirely internal, PID installation on my Isomac Zaffiro. Details at click here.
Posted Tue Feb 8, 2005, 1:11am Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro
The PID allows you to control the boiler temperature but not the E61 group temperature so please try this:
PID Zaffiro idle for ~1 hour, measure brew water temperature.
PID Zaffiro idle for ~1 hour, pull a shot, let boiler come back to set point (2 minutes?), measure brew water temperature.
I've asked three other Coffeegeeks who have either a PID Zaffiro or PID Amica to do the same simple test but none of them want to post any data. When pulling a shot the thermosyphen is in a different state so I'm wondering if the brew temperature after pulling a shot is different even though the boiler is at the same set point temperature.
Posted Tue Feb 8, 2005, 2:24pm Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro
Seeing this makes me want to PID my Isomac Venus again.
Ever since I've gotten the Expobar, the Venus has been sitting in a corner collecting dust. And the PID controller I bought is somewhere in the living room....
Posted Tue Feb 8, 2005, 6:16pm Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro
GaryH Said:
The PID allows you to control the boiler temperature but not the E61 group temperature so please try this:
PID Zaffiro idle for ~1 hour, measure brew water temperature. PID Zaffiro idle for ~1 hour, pull a shot, let boiler come back to set point (2 minutes?), measure brew water temperature.
I've asked three other Coffeegeeks who have either a PID Zaffiro or PID Amica to do the same simple test but none of them want to post any data. When pulling a shot the thermosyphen is in a different state so I'm wondering if the brew temperature after pulling a shot is different even though the boiler is at the same set point temperature.
Gary - Michael may be your guy. It seems like he is not too wrapped up in conventional ideas (SCAA barista forum). In fact based on much of what I've read from him, I'm actually suprised he undertook this. I sure looks like he didn't do it half heartedly, that's for sure. He has a public email address in his profile here, and in the thread I've linked to, and he has demonstrated a willingness to communicate "off line."
Some people think Michael is somehow anti-modern age or at least anti-electronics, simply because he thinks the Italian engineers and manufacturers don't get enough respect in America. He's not at all that way and is always thinking about innovative ideas.
By the way, after 3 days at home, the machine is working like a dream. I can taste the difference that 0.5 C in the boiler makes in the cup. My first tests were on Supreme Bean's Bella Luna blend, where I have tentatively settled on 98 C (again, in the boiler) as my favorite. At that temperature the fruit comes out to challenge the chocolate, without phasing into sourness.
doubleristretto Senior Member Joined: 8 Feb 2002 Posts: 273 Location: Seattle Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Expobar Brewtus Grinder: Versalab M3 Drip: French Press
Posted Wed Feb 9, 2005, 6:02pm Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro
GaryH Said:
The PID allows you to control the boiler temperature but not the E61 group temperature so please try this:
PID Zaffiro idle for ~1 hour, measure brew water temperature. PID Zaffiro idle for ~1 hour, pull a shot, let boiler come back to set point (2 minutes?), measure brew water temperature.
I've asked three other Coffeegeeks who have either a PID Zaffiro or PID Amica to do the same simple test but none of them want to post any data. When pulling a shot the thermosyphen is in a different state so I'm wondering if the brew temperature after pulling a shot is different even though the boiler is at the same set point temperature.
I was one of the people you asked to do this. However, I have a Brewtus. I didn't post the data because I didn't do it. I'm not afraid to post anything. I just don't currently have a t/c (shredded my last one.) That may also be the case with the others you've asked. At any rate, I suspect you *know* the answer or you wouldn't be using a copper heat sink on your Zaffiro group! :-) Consecutive shots are going to heat up the group. The ultimate in temperature predictability would be an "activesyphon" e61 (such as the one Sean has been working on and has discussed under the Brewtus thread. With "activesyphon", as opposed to thermosyphon, Sean's gotten the group to within .5 of the boiler...and that's a Frankensilvia machine with a Silvia boiler connected to an e61. The Zaffiro or Brewtus might even do better. The closer the e61 temp is to the brew boiler temp, the more predictable the starting temp will be and the more stable within shot temps will be.
Posted Wed Feb 9, 2005, 7:09pm Subject: Re: Bionic Zaffiro
Marshall - It wasn't my intention to portray Michael as closed minded, quite the opposite. The reason I said he might be Gary's guy, is that Michael seems willing to question the ideas that some of us get wrapped up in (including me). His recent posts here even have me thinking twice about my bottomless portafilter (I fooled around with some side by side tests of my regular double portafilter and bottomless this afternoon).
The reason I was surprised that he worked on a PID project is that some things I've read from him seem to indicate that PID'ing an E61 is fixing something that ain't broke.
I read his posts here and at SCAA board with interest.
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