rbh1515 Senior Member Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 1,052 Location: Milwaukee Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Jun 1, 2003, 8:47am Subject: Isomac Millenium vs ECM Giotto...a side by side test at last
I found out last week that there is an espresso Aficionado down the street from me. I have a Millenium and he has a Giotto! We got together yesterday to make some espresso. He brought his machine over, we set them next to each other and we started making some lattes to see how the two machines compare. To level the playing field we used the same espresso beans (fresh Intelligentsia Black Cat) ground using my Mini Mazzer. We also used my portafilter basket (the double ridgeless basket from 1st line marketed as being an LM basket--I love this basket) and my improved 2 hole steaming tip from Chris Coffee. Here are my impressions: 1) The fronts of the machines are almost identical. The Millenium has the green and red boiler lights, and that's really the main difference. 2) The drip trays are very different, and Matt pointed out that the drip tray on his Giotto is much wider which has some benefits. I'm not sure which has a larger capacity, but I think both are very adequate. 3) The tops of the machines are very different. The Giotto scored big time here. Matt's Giotto did not have the chincy plastic contraption that many Giotto come with. The big advantage of the top of the Giotto is that you do not have to remove the cup warmer to fill the tank. There is a smaller access panel on top in the back that you remove, so you can keep all your cups up front. I liked this!! 4) The reservoirs looked to be very similar in size. 5) The side panels look very different. Of course that is what gives the Giotto its somewhat distinctive look. I think we both liked the overall look of the Millenium better. It does appear that it would be easier to remove the side panels on the Giotto. Matt said it was very easy to remove them on his Giotto. I failed to remove the side panels on my Millenium the first time, and I have not tried again. Part of the difficulty is that the side panel on the Millenium extends along the side of the drip tray. 6)This next comparison is what really amazed me. I had strongly considered buying the Giotto, but I heard it was weak in the steaming department. Surprise: the Giotto definitely had more steaming power than my Millenium. I made Matt a latte using my Millenium which he liked a lot (the latte art may have helped). Then I made him one using his Giotto. As soon as I opened the steam valve I could tell the difference. Much stronger steam. When I steamed the milk I got a better rolling action. I always try to steam my milk to 140F. With my Millenium I know when to turn off the valve so it makes it up to 140F. Because of the stronger steam with the Giotto I over shot 140F and Matt's latte was a bit too hot. The Giotto is a great steamer, and it worked fantastic with the improved 2 hole tip from Chris Coffee. It looks like the stock tip on the Giotto is identical to the stock tip on the Millenium. IMO the stock tips are worthless. 6)As far as the espresso, with the E61 group, both machines seem to make very comparible espresso. Matt really liked the Intelligentsia Black Cat, and I think the batch I bought yesterday was one of the best I have tasted (I have only been using Black Cat for a couple months, and I love it). In summary, I think the Giotto has gotten a bad rap in the steaming department--its definitely a stronger steamer than the Millenium (both machines had been fully warmed up for over 2 hours). I also liked being able to fill the Giotto's water reservior without taking off all the cups. Both machines are capable of making excellent espresso using the E61 group. I do like the overall look of the Millenium better. So, am I selling my Millenium and getting a Giotto? No. The Millenium still has plenty of steam power and with the improved 2 hole tip I get great microfoam and can pour nice latte art. It would be nice to have the extra steaming power, but its not essential. If I were buying a machine now, which would I buy? I think the features on the Giotto (filling the reservoir without taking off all you cups and the extra steaming power) give it a definate edge. I would probably buy the Giotto. Any comments Matt? Rob
Great side by side. Did you happen to check to see if both machines were running at the same pressure? That will make a difference in steam power. Lower pressurestat to lower the pour temperature will result in lower steaming ability.
rbh1515 Senior Member Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 1,052 Location: Milwaukee Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Jun 1, 2003, 10:14am Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium vs ECM Giotto...a side by side test at last
Jim, Excellent question. I'm not 100% sure but I think they were pretty similar. Can you necessarily trust the pressure guage readings between different machines? Are the gauages that precise and accurate? Or would it be best to test the temp of the water coming out of the boiler. Of note, I have changed the pressurestat setting a number of times on my Millenium, lower and higher, to see where my espresso tasted best, and I have seen no noticeable difference in the steaming capability at the different settings. The difference between the steaming power of the two machines as tested was very noticeable. My current setting is very close to the original factory setting. Rob
rbh1515 Senior Member Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 1,052 Location: Milwaukee Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Jun 1, 2003, 12:11pm Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium vs ECM Giotto...a side by side test at last
Just looked at a bunch of internet sites to check out prices: Looks like the Giotto is going for about $100 more. Of course if you go with the Tea you will save a more. I personally liked the look of the Millenium much better, and I still don't think I need the extra guage, although I like the placement of the guages on the Tea much better.
I have no clue what the plumb in costs are. Neither of plumbed our machines in.
Posted Sun Jun 1, 2003, 4:58pm Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium vs ECM Giotto...a side by side test at last
rbh1515 Said:
Just looked at a bunch of internet sites to check out prices: Looks like the Giotto is going for about $100 more. Of course if you go with the Tea you will save a more. I personally liked the look of the Millenium much better, and I still don't think I need the extra guage, although I like the placement of the guages on the Tea much better.
I have no clue what the plumb in costs are. Neither of plumbed our machines in.
These come with all the lines and fittings needed to plumb in the Isomac Millenium or Tea. Probably work for the Giotto as well.
I have my Tea plumbed inusing the float valve and softener/filter kit. It took about 20 - 30 minutes to hook it all up (and I might be exagerating here because it is really simple).
It has made using the Tea a pure joy. I really hated always having to check the reservoir - or worse yet, have the machine shut off in the middle of a pour because of "low" water. This problem has been solved!
augustusflavius Senior Member Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 34 Location: Shorewood, WI Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Wega Lyra rotary, Olympia... Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Mon Jun 2, 2003, 11:40am Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium vs ECM Giotto...a side by side test at last
rbh1515 Said:
So, am I selling my Millenium and getting a Giotto? No. The Millenium still has plenty of steam power and with the improved 2 hole tip I get great microfoam and can pour nice latte art. It would be nice to have the extra steaming power, but its not essential. If I were buying a machine now, which would I buy? I think the features on the Giotto (filling the reservoir without taking off all you cups and the extra steaming power) give it a definate edge. I would probably buy the Giotto. Any comments Matt? Rob
I would have to agree with Rob on his review of these two machine. They operated so closely that one in the market for either machine would have to purchase on looks rather than performance. I do agree that access to the reservoir was far easier on the Giotto and the drip tray being wider can be an advantage.
espresso_jim Said:
Great side by side. Did you happen to check to see if both machines were running at the same pressure? That will make a difference in steam power. Lower pressurestat to lower the pour temperature will result in lower steaming ability.
espresso_jim my pressure stat reads about 1.25-1.3 at standard operating temp. I believe that's about where Robs Millenium was. I had the Giotto on for 8 hours before taking it to Robs, and the trip there was 5 minutes, so the machine would not have cooled at all. I have set the temp up from the factory setting, but the pressure of the Giotto compared to the Millenium was far greater.
On a side note, I was thoroughly impressed by Intelligentsia Black Cat. Being an Illy guy for the last 12 years it is nice to find a good local roast. Milwaukee is definetly not the center of the coffee universe, and more closely resembles the dregs.
Thanks Rob for getting together, I had alot of fun and learned quite a bit. After 3 double lattes I was quite "Coffee'd". We should get together with my uncle when he gets his Wega Lyra Rotary.
Posted Mon Jun 2, 2003, 12:40pm Subject: Re: Isomac Millenium vs ECM Giotto...a side by side test at last
Hi Folks,
When I was talking to Bob Burgess (Burgess Enterprises) after buying an ECM La Toscana(Giotto w/ flat sides) he explained that ECM was created for the American market by adding steaming power; it was part of the design criteria (eg. Americans love their...lattes.
So, theres a little more support for the results of the test in WI.
Thanks for the great write-up Rob. So much of what we read is based on individuals that can only comment on their own machine's performance...and perhaps a memory of the performance of another machine. Therefore, this kind of side-by-side analysis is a real gem for people researching for the purchase one of these machines.
Regarding the steaming, I have to admit it's a little disappointing to hear that the Isomacs don't perform quite as well as the Giottos. If LM sets the standard, more steam is definitely better.
Though the pressure guages are not really accurate, they are probably accurate relative to the machine in question. I have noticed significant differences in steaming pressure by increasing pressurestat into the 1.5 bar range. You can still make perfect espresso at this pressure, as long as you stick with moderately light roasts.
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