Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer Mini E
Coffee Kids
Help folks who help folks in coffee producing nations.
coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > trading in the...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 2 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
grouphead
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 16
Location: Seattle
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia PIDed
Grinder: La Cimbali Jr, Solis Maestro...
Posted Thu Apr 14, 2005, 11:16am
Subject: Re: trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer
 

Greg, how do you rate the mini-E vs Cimbali jr ?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
artemis
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 70
Location: San Jose, CA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E, SJ, Zass
Drip: Technivorm Thermal
Roaster: HotTop
Posted Thu Apr 14, 2005, 11:52am
Subject: Re: trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer
 

gscace Said:

By the way, 1st Line has the best price that I've seen recently, in case yer interested.

Posted April 14, 2005 link

Vaneli's has Mini-E listed for $595.  Other vendors may price match them.

We love ours, but it's our first electrical grinder (we used a manual grinder previously).  Big upgrade: moka pot and manual grinder to Brewtus and Mazzer Mini-E.  I'm extremely pleased with both choices.  Convenience and controllability were the two big factors in our choices.

Michelle
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
artemis
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 70
Location: San Jose, CA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E, SJ, Zass
Drip: Technivorm Thermal
Roaster: HotTop
Posted Thu Apr 14, 2005, 12:21pm
Subject: Re: trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer Mini E
 

singforsupper Said:

I seriously think that the Mazzer E would save me about that much per year because it can be set to a consistant dose ground directly into your PF via a funnel configuration with no grounds flying sideways, and with a stainless steel funnel, there would be less sweeping out needed (a few times a week and with MUCH less buildup that a doser).  

Any comments?

Posted April 13, 2005 link

Sure.  I'm not sure the money savings will be there.  Convenience, yes.

Here's why:

I waste far more coffee getting the grind just right -- it seems to require variation as the beans age and as the humidity varies.  Also, I like to vary which beans I use (also requiring a grind adjustment, and usually, wasted coffee).  If you are fastideous about old grounds, there is some left in the chute which you can brush out (remove that finger guard) or just grind out (again, wasted coffee).

The dosing buttons are just timers, and I find the amount of grounds generated per unit time varies enough on bean and grind setting that you can't just use the dosing buttons as set-and-forget-it.  One option listed in one of the reviews here is to set the single dosing button for a very short grind to be used just to flush out stale grounds from the chute and then the double dose button to be large enough to overflow some at most grind settings (wasting coffee), or just under appropriate amount for most grind settings and then use the manual button to top off (our approach).

Given all the opportunities for wasted coffee in either Mazzer, I'm not sure the additional amount wasted by a messy doser is significant.

That said, I think I would find a doser to be just one extra hassle, and it's nice to be able to see immediately exactly how much you've ground so far and have it mostly go directly in to the basket.  The rest for the portafilter handle is nice as well.  You can set the portafilter in, press the double dose, and have your hands free until you need to top off the grounds at the end and pack.

As for hassle, I find making fine adjustments on the mazzer to be a bit of a pain, even with the additional lever arm we added.  It would be nice to have a doserless grinder with big burrs and a worm drive.   When you spend $600 on  grinder, I think you get the right to complain about such minor things.  :-)

Michelle
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
gscace
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 237
Location: Laytonsville, MD USA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Marzocco Linea 2AV, Astra...
Grinder: 3 Mazzers Robur, Kony,...
Vac Pot: Cona D, Hario Nouveau
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: Has Garanti 1kg. electric
Posted Thu Apr 14, 2005, 1:48pm
Subject: Re: trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer
 

grouphead Said:

Greg, how do you rate the mini-E vs Cimbali jr ?

Posted April 14, 2005 link

This has to be taken with a grain of salt since I've used the mini-e for one day.  I've used the Cimbali for a year or so.  I love the grinding speed.  The grinder has super adjustablity.  The doser is the best doser that I've used in my somewhat limited experience of not being in the coffee grindr evaluation biz.  The dosed coffee drops straight down and doesn't make a mess.  However, I find that the distribution of coffee in the LM triple baskets that i favor tends to be uneven, producing pours that start from the right side when facing the machine.  This effect is extremely reproducible if I use the Cimbali doser in the way where you flick the doser a lot of times while the grinder is grinding.  The problem is fixed by grinding for 8 seconds, mostly filling the portafilter basket, settling the grinds by thwacking on the counter, then touching up the fill by grinding a little and dosing.  I posted a report on this over at Alt.coffee a coupla months ago when I first observed the phenomenom.  To nip one question in the bud, my LaMarzocco Linea is dead level in all directions.   The problem is completely cleared up if I spoon coffee into the pf, rather than dosing directly, but that is a pain in the yass.  I don't have the problem with the mazzer doser on my mini, since I grind a specific volume before dosing, and I don't thwack  the mazzer doser because if I do the grinds spray everywhere.

The above paragraph migh then be taken to mean "If you don't use the doser like it was intended to be used, then of course you'll get flakey results.  Dosers were meant to dose a specific volume in each dose.  No telling what you'll get for distribution if you do otherwise."   On the other hand,  the cimbali doser does a good job of sweeping out the chamber and leaves very little grinds in the grinds chamber.

So I don't think doser's are the best thing for hobbyists because they're designed for commercial environments and a style of use that may not even be best practice in the commercial world.  The style of use that I think they are best at is when one grinds enough to fill the doser vanes, not when one is grinding enough for one shot.

So in this area, the mini-e seems better than either the Cimbali or my doser equipped mini.  Grinds distribution seems very good.  It's intended method of use is more inline with the ueage given by an enthusiast.

I also like the way that mazzer grinders are very clean upstream of the burrs.  The Cimbali has a lot of volume above the burrs that  can hide beans so they aren't ground.  This is not an issue if you keep the bean hopper filled, which is a practice that I adapted to when I began to use the Cimbali.  You have to keep an excess of beans in the hopper of the Cimbali, or else they really dance around, the grind fineness changes, and you end up with beans laying on the shelf just above the burrs.  You don't have to do this with the mazzers, which means you can just fill the bean hopper with the exact amount that you need.  It's not a big difference if there is a lot of grinder use, and the cimbali is my main grinder at home.  But my doser equiped mini is used for decaf for my wife, and it only grinds a shot or two a day.  So I keep the bean hopper on it completely empty, filling it with only enough for a shot at a time.  

So in terms of how the machines dispense coffee, at this point I like the mini-e over both the cimbali and the regular mini.  As I mentioned earlier, it seems that both my regular and e-version minis grind at the same speed.  This makes me think that they share the same 58mm burrset, regardless or what you read.  The motor on the mini-e is rated at 250W, based on the serial number sticker on the side.  I believe that this is the same as the regular mini.  Why they would use bigger burrs on the mini-e without upsizing the motor is a question that also points toward the burr sizing being the same as those used in the regular mini.  Since I'm disputing published info on this, I may open my mini-e up and measure the burrs to put this to bed.  The Cimbali, with it's 64mm burrs, just chews through coffee effortlessly.  It takes 9 seconds to grind enough coffee to fill the big LaMArzocco triple basket.  The minis seem downright slow by comparison.  

I really like the sound of the mini, and the Mazzer Super Jolly for that matter,  compared to the Cimbali.  The mini is dead silent when the motor is running, but not grinding.  The Cimbali's stainless steel exterior resonates more and so it has more idling noise.  Both grinders are very businesslike when grinding, but the mazzers have a brittle, well damped sound of shearing coffee to bits that just speaks of robust over-design.  The Cimbali growls through it incredibly efficiently, but the sound is less satisfying to me.  Seems weird, and it's definitely subjective, but I just love the silence of the mazzers, with the only sound being that of shearing coffee.  It's like an acoustic engineer decided to build a coffee grinder.  

So I have this love / hate thing with the Cimbali.  It's a kick-assed grinder that is extremely capable and very highly regarded.  In terms of function, it is very good and its doser is second to none that I have used.  The mini's are slower grinding, but i think the dispenser in the e has great promise.  I read in this thread that the timer circuits don't do the best job of controlling what is really a volumetric measurement problem - the problem of reproducibly filling the portafilter.  I suspect as much, and I think I'm gonna set mine to do nearly all basket filling with the double shot button, then tweak the amount with the button that grinds as long as it is depressed - the tweaker button.  That's prolly the best way to set it up imo.  The idea of setting the single button to just sweep the throat clear of the last sessions grinds is a good one.  

So there you have it.  I tend to really get into the quirks of a piece of machinery once I've used it for a while.  I'm sure that I'll revise my opinion over the coming months.  I think that what I'm gonna find out is that the real benifit of the mini-e is in its clean dispensing / distribution, and that the programmed buttons may not be as precise as I would like for exact dosing.  AFA the perfect grinder - I have a Tagex Mazzer Super Jolly coming.  I intend to completely strip it, do the hotshit repaint thing that I read here (That was a really cool thread), then restore it to new condition as a doserless grinder.  Now that I see how the mini-E is done, I'd like to reproduce the funnel and internal coffee deflector (a good vacuum bagged carbon fiber project unless I have problems with static electricity), and see if I can't come up with a better Super Jolly.  

-Greg
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Luca
Senior Member
Luca
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,658
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Espresso: H: Maver W: FB-80
Grinder: H: Super Jolly W: Brasilia...
Vac Pot: Hario TCA-2
Roaster: Sample Roaster at Work
Posted Sat Apr 16, 2005, 1:32am
Subject: Re: trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer
 

Thanks for the info, Greg.  You contribute so much to this community with your thoroughness and expertise.  I await your conclusive comments with bated breath, but for now a few of my own (based on only an hour or two using the mini E):

-Adjustability = great, as for a normal mini

-Grind speed; didn't really take notice.  You put the pf in the holder, press the preset button, walk off then top up.  Only problem is that your PF is cooling down in this time ... wonder who the first guy to add a PIDded rope heater to the PF holder on the mini E will be ;P

-Dosing ... WOW!  Not a granule out of place.  Nice change from the normal mini, where you need to either really slam the dosing lever or hold the PF several feet to the left!

gscace Said:

Now that I see how the mini-E is done, I'd like to reproduce the funnel and internal coffee deflector (a good vacuum bagged carbon fiber project unless I have problems with static electricity), and see if I can't come up with a better Super Jolly.

Posted April 14, 2005 link

I reckon that the SJ is about twice as fast as the mini.  The major seems to be almost twice as fast again.  Damn I'd like to see a Major-E!

Cheers,

Luca "need major for home" C

 
General ramblings about coffee: http://www.pourquality.blogspot.com/

Reviews of Australian coffee: http://www.coffeereviewaustralia.com/
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Luca
Senior Member
Luca
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,658
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Espresso: H: Maver W: FB-80
Grinder: H: Super Jolly W: Brasilia...
Vac Pot: Hario TCA-2
Roaster: Sample Roaster at Work
Posted Sat Apr 16, 2005, 1:47am
Subject: Re: trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer
 

Don't know why this didn't post with the rest of the above post ...

gscace Said:

So I don't think doser's are the best thing for hobbyists because they're designed for commercial environments and a style of use that may not even be best practice in the commercial world.  The style of use that I think they are best at is when one grinds enough to fill the doser vanes, not when one is grinding enough for one shot.

So in this area, the mini-e seems better than either the Cimbali or my doser equipped mini.  Grinds distribution seems very good.  It's intended method of use is more inline with the ueage given by an enthusiast.

Posted April 14, 2005 link

Agreed on point 1.  I've only used the doser as intended once.  Andrew and I went through 1kg in 20 min.  No jokes.   Andrew was actually using the 1.5L jugs.  Funny thing was that I wasn't even working; I'd popped in for a quick shot on my way home from uni!

The major is so fast that there's no excuse for not grinding per shot.  (Apparently the Robur is even faster)  Admittedly the doser shoots left, but a tip from Jack H (neonphyter) put that to rest: Slam the dosing lever really hard and really fast.  The grounds hit the left-hand wall of the chute from the doser and then fall down flat.  Makes a bit of noise and might even rock the machine, though!

The best use for the doser on the major is when you want to make a small number of coffees ... like 5 ... in a row.  Grind the amount all at once and your work flow is so smooth that you wouldn't believe.  Grounds only sit in the doser for a few minutes.

L

 
General ramblings about coffee: http://www.pourquality.blogspot.com/

Reviews of Australian coffee: http://www.coffeereviewaustralia.com/
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
singforsupper
Senior Member
singforsupper
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 539
Location: NY State
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Fiorenzato Bricoletta
Grinder: Mazzer Mini E
Vac Pot: -
Drip: French Press
Roaster: Caffe Fresco-Tony Sciandra...
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 6:11am
Subject: Re: trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer Mini E
 

I waste far more coffee getting the grind just right -- it seems to require variation as the beans age and as the humidity varies.  Also, I like to vary which beans I use (also requiring a grind adjustment, and usually, wasted coffee).

Given all the opportunities for wasted coffee in either Mazzer, I'm not sure the additional amount wasted by a messy doser is significant.

I find that in my rocky, when I sweep out the doser after monring espresso, there is about a tablespoon or more of grinds left in the doser and chute that get swept out (after  I let the doser remove all it can) and over a week that's a bit of coffee.  SO I do think that is significant.  Second, on wasted shots, I've gotten good enough with the Rocky already that with my hygrometer, I am usually only one mediocre shot away from a good shot each morning, and my wife is not so picky as I so she is fine with a less than perfect shot, so I waste fewer shots that I used to.  Don't get me wrong, I still dump about 10 shots per week or so. but that'd far fewer than in my first weeks.

 
Coffee, I must have coffee,
And if anyone wants to give me a treat,
Ah!, just give me some coffee!

~J. S. Bach Coffee Cantata, BWV 211~
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
jimw
Senior Member
jimw
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 204
Location: Providence.RI
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar
Grinder: Mazzer
Vac Pot: cona vacuum, French Press
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 8:32am
Subject: Re: trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer Mini E
 

thanks, guys. Really. thanks. I now feel that I desperately NEED a mini-E. Thanks. I really appreciate it. I'll send my wife here for the explanation as to why, exactly, I'm dropping $600 on a new grinder.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
adman54
Senior Member
adman54
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: LM GS/3 Paddle - Anderja...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini E (A) X2
Drip: Chemex
Roaster: Alp
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 9:00am
Subject: Re: trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer Mini E
 

jimw Said:

thanks, guys. Really. thanks. I now feel that I desperately NEED a mini-E. Thanks. I really appreciate it. I'll send my wife here for the explanation as to why, exactly, I'm dropping $600 on a new grinder.

Posted April 19, 2005 link

Remember:   It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is permission.

Dave
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
singforsupper
Senior Member
singforsupper
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 539
Location: NY State
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Fiorenzato Bricoletta
Grinder: Mazzer Mini E
Vac Pot: -
Drip: French Press
Roaster: Caffe Fresco-Tony Sciandra...
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 6:32pm
Subject: Re: trading in the Rocky for the Mazzer Mini E
 

FYI, I have been pricing the Mini E and Viteli's does not have any in stock and when their new stock arrives (which may be a month) the mini E will be $100 higher (was $595 now $695)

The best prices I've found are:

1st-Line  $649 silver (free shipping)
             $629 black (free shipping)

Chris' Coffee, silver, has a custom shorter hopper (a big deal if you are putting it under a cabinet) $695 free shipping.    Note that the shorter hopper is a great innovation for the Mazzer mini for those with standard cabinetry.  Another great accessory Chris Nachtrieb has had made for the home user.   It may be well worth the extra $50.

 
Coffee, I must have coffee,
And if anyone wants to give me a treat,
Ah!, just give me some coffee!

~J. S. Bach Coffee Cantata, BWV 211~
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 2 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > trading in the...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Donate to Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids works with farming communities around the world, improving lives. Donate today.
www.coffeekids.org
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.490892887115)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+