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Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Timing the...  
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Teme
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Teme
Joined: 7 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,221
Location: Finland
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario
Posted Sun May 29, 2005, 3:14pm
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

I would like to thank everyone for their very constructive input. I guess there was an overflow of information (at least for me) and it is quite clear that there are several approaches to the cooling flush routines on E61 machines, a number of which will probably achieve the same goal. In the end, I have adopted the one researched and posted by Bob Yellin in this thread: "Fine Tuning Brew Temperature on a Heat Exchanger Machine - A Workable Solution"

This routine seems to work for me and the quality and consistency of my shots has improved greatly. If and when I want to go further, I will do my own measurements (I'll need to buy a multimeter with a TC) perhaps mostly out of curiosity but also to check if the fact that my machine is 220V vs Bob's 110V makes a difference (especially in the recovery times).

Br,
Teme

 
www.espresso-passione.com (my blog)
www.pbase.com/teme (my photo galleries)
www.ristretto.fi (my Finnish language coffee site)

LMWDP #039
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MOSFET
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MOSFET
Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 376
Location: Long Island, NY
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Linea
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Vac Pot: Hoover
Drip: Post-nasal
Roaster: Perdue Oven-Stuffer
Posted Tue May 31, 2005, 8:35am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

I've been in and out of the thermocouple approach, and now, like Dan, I "use the force". After speaking at length with an older Italian cafe owner about machines, I've come to use the more laid back approach. He told me, "You need a little steam to make it taste right." Since then I've backed up considerably on the flush amount and I make sure it's still steaming a little when I shut it off. The flow, color, and taste are always better than if I let it completely settle. And if I let it settle and then wait two more seconds it's always sour. I just practice seeing how much it's steaming before shutting off the preflush and correlate with taste.

Keith
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krumbak
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Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Aalborg, Denmark
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Andreja Premium
Grinder: Macap M4 (Doser)
Roaster: Gene Café, SC/HG, Poppers
Posted Tue May 31, 2005, 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

Keith,

Do i understand it correctly, that you with this method of yours, is pulling the shot right after the flush? No waiting 30-45 seconds after the flush?

I do the cooling flush (amount depends on how long the machine has been ideling), wait 30-45 seconds and pull.
I would like to try your approch, just want to be sure to do it right... So, flush until the water almost settles, and pull the shot immideatly hereafter?

Best regards,
Thomas.
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MOSFET
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MOSFET
Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 376
Location: Long Island, NY
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Linea
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Vac Pot: Hoover
Drip: Post-nasal
Roaster: Perdue Oven-Stuffer
Posted Wed Jun 1, 2005, 8:34am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

krumbak Said:

Keith,

Do i understand it correctly, that you with this method of yours, is pulling the shot right after the flush? No waiting 30-45 seconds after the flush?

I do the cooling flush (amount depends on how long the machine has been ideling), wait 30-45 seconds and pull.
I would like to try your approch, just want to be sure to do it right... So, flush until the water almost settles, and pull the shot immideatly hereafter?

Best regards,
Thomas.

Posted May 31, 2005 link

Actually I'm not that exact. I don't do it immediately on purpose, but I also don't wait a set amount of time. If I had to guess I'd say I typically wait 10-20 seconds after I stop it before starting the shot, just because I'm spending time grinding and tamping. Just have fun experimenting! But I wouldn't use too much steam if your roast is particularly dark.

Keith
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krumbak
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Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Aalborg, Denmark
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Andreja Premium
Grinder: Macap M4 (Doser)
Roaster: Gene Café, SC/HG, Poppers
Posted Wed Jun 1, 2005, 11:56am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

Keith,

Thanks. I am experimenting... a lot! :)
It is all part of the fun, i was just looking for some pointers on doing it differently or in some other way.

I flushed a little less today - flow just settled down. Pulled the shot about 10 seconds later, had to place filterbasket in PF first. I had already dosed and tamped, as not to waste to much time.
It tasted great - well not great great, but as good as any other "great" shot i have pulled, which actually does not say a lot, but thats another story ;)

Will experiment more with your approch... cant hurt, it can only make me more experienced, either failing or succeeding ;)

Thomas.
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e61brewski
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e61brewski
Joined: 7 Dec 2004
Posts: 131
Location: greenville, sc
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: isomac tea, riviera lever
Grinder: mazzer major, isomac gran...
Vac Pot: dirt devil lx
Drip: wouldn't dare
Roaster: i-roast
Posted Wed Jul 13, 2005, 10:50pm
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

i'm resurrecting this thread (though i could have picked any number of the HX flush ones) because, although i had a pretty good mastery of the e61 HX flush by senses, i recently became frustrated with what i knew was a super-awesome SO bean (the yirg on sale right now at sweet maria's) resulting in shots that were all over the map -- no matter how hard i tried to regulate brew temp with identical flushing routines. it was clear that temp fluctuations -- however minor -- were hindering consistency with a particularly temp-sensitive bean.

so i bought a thermocouple, did "fake" flushes all day long, then videotaped the most reliable flushing routine i know in order to nail a shot in the 199-203-degree range (any HX machine will still fluctuate somehwhat -- the idea was to keep it in the narrowest, most optimal zone possible).

the results -- in the form of a 7MB video -- are at the blog. also listed are the basic steps in text form. this should be of especial help to isomac users and those with similar machines (andrejas, etc.) -- i run a tea with the dual guages and dual lights to indicate the boiler cycle. if you're confused, just watch the video. anyone with an e61 group and heat exchanger should find it helpful, i think. and as i wrote on the blog, this neatly consummates, for me, what has been a series of related home machine issues -- why certain blends and beans are better for the home than others, how well the boiler gauge serves as a temp proxy, how to perform the optimal HX flush, etc.

direct link here.

regards,
ben

 
the blog: http://ben.szobody.com
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Teme
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Teme
Joined: 7 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,221
Location: Finland
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario
Posted Wed Jul 13, 2005, 11:01pm
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

Ben,

For some reason I am unable to open the file / video clip from them link on your blog...

Br,
Teme

 
www.espresso-passione.com (my blog)
www.pbase.com/teme (my photo galleries)
www.ristretto.fi (my Finnish language coffee site)

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strugs
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strugs
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 658
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Expertise: I live coffee

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Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 12:19am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

Same here:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /flush.mov on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

 
- Sean
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e61brewski
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e61brewski
Joined: 7 Dec 2004
Posts: 131
Location: greenville, sc
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: isomac tea, riviera lever
Grinder: mazzer major, isomac gran...
Vac Pot: dirt devil lx
Drip: wouldn't dare
Roaster: i-roast
Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 7:11am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

fellas:

my most profuse apologies. there was a bizarre permissions issue that i have now worked out. the links should work.
ben

 
the blog: http://ben.szobody.com
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cannonfodder
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cannonfodder
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 873
Location: Dayton, Oh
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ElektraA3,Faema2G, Isomac,...
Grinder: Cimbali, Mazzer
Vac Pot: Dont smoke pot or vac it.
Drip: Press pot
Roaster: Hottop, drum roaster
Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 9:34am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

I made a thermometer that mounts in the brew path so I do not have to guess at the temp any longer.

Here is how I made it.

cannonfodder: shotstart.JPG
(Click for larger image)

 
Dave Stephens
www.home-barista.com
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