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Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
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srwven
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Joined: 5 Dec 2003
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Espresso: Pasquini Livia 90S
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Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 9:53am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

Very nice cannonfodder.  That gives me an idea for my Livia.  Though it isn't an E61, I could drill a very small diam. hole in the copper tubing going to the brewhead and solder a thermal probe in there.  I had previously used the basker thermocouple method, but having that in the portafilter is a pain.  Thank you!
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e61brewski
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e61brewski
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Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 10:06am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

very nice indeed.

i'm suprised that you got the brew temp to stay around 200 degrees for (presumably) 30 seconds. is that the case?

 
the blog: http://ben.szobody.com
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strugs
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strugs
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 10:11am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

cannonfodder Said:

I made a thermometer that mounts in the brew path so I do not have to guess at the temp any longer.

Here is how I made it.

Posted July 14, 2005 link

Sweet mother of pearl!

I guess I know what my next DIY project will be.

Well done!  And thanks for sharing.

 
- Sean
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cannonfodder
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cannonfodder
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Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 10:31am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

Yes, the temp held that range through the entire shot. You have to remember that the water is flowing through that massive three pound (or there about) hunk of brass. That gives the E61 machines their inherent thermal stability. It takes a lot of water to cool that big thing down. That is also why they take at least a half hour to heat up.

When you pull the shot you are also flowing much less water through the HX than you are with no ground coffee in the PF. The lower flow rate allows the water passing through the HX more time to heat. The group head takes care of the rest.

I can get very repeatable shots by keeping an eye on the temp, and I can surf the 195-205 range to find what works best with a particular blend.

Glad you find it helpful.

 
Dave Stephens
www.home-barista.com
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cannonfodder
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cannonfodder
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Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 10:53am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

There is one thing I want to point out in regard to Benís (e61brewski) post about the temp. You have to keep in mind that this is a digital thermometer, not a thermocouple. The thermometer works on a thermal resistor and is a little less accurate and responsive than a thermocouple. So if I was using a TC you may have seen more flux in the temp.

Personally, I donít have $200 to drop on a TC. This is intended to help remove that guessing variable. Regardless if the temp shows 200.8f but is actually 201.8f, you still get consistency from shot to shot.

By the way, I got a kick out of your Isomac video, watched it a couple of weeks ago and laughed my head off. I had the same experience when my Millennium arrived.

 
Dave Stephens
www.home-barista.com
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Teme
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Teme
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Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 11:43am
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

Ben,

Yes, the link works now. Very nice blog and very nice clip.

I assume this is not directly applicable to my Andreja Premium due to the fact that it cycles at longer intevals than the Tea due to boiler insulation? However, I agree that this is very informative to the owners of uninsulated machines of similar specs.

I am currently happy with my flushing routine, but occasionally (even though I am a bit anti-gadget as you may gather from this) I am tempted to verify the temperatures with a TC...

Br,
Teme

 
www.espresso-passione.com (my blog)
www.pbase.com/teme (my photo galleries)
www.ristretto.fi (my Finnish language coffee site)

LMWDP #039
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srwven
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Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 12:49pm
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

cannonfodder Said:

There is one thing I want to point out in regard to Benís (e61brewski) post about the temp. You have to keep in mind that this is a digital thermometer, not a thermocouple. The thermometer works on a thermal resistor and is a little less accurate and responsive than a thermocouple. So if I was using a TC you may have seen more flux in the temp.

Personally, I donít have $200 to drop on a TC.

Posted July 14, 2005 link

You can pick up a descent thermocouple for WAY less than $200.  I have found mine, that I picked up for less than $40, to  be VERY accurate.  But like you point out, the most important thing is consistency.  If you find that the espresso tastes bitter to you at 200.8 on your thermometer, but 199.8 tastes fantastic, then who the hell cares if 200.8 is actually 201.8.  You know how you like the taste and with your fantastic mod, you can consistently know when you are pulling that temp.
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strugs
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strugs
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Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 1:20pm
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

There is a link to a very cheap thermocouple that pops up in this forum from time to time.  I think it is $30 to $40 - very reasonable.  If I was to go the TC route, anyone have any suggestions about bonding the TC through the hex bolt?  The nice thing about the thermometer approach that Cannonfodder did is that you can chop down the thermometer housing so that the resistor is shielded by the metal thermometer housing.  I was thinking of just chopping up an old kithchen thermometer and sliding the TC probe into it.  Would this work?

 
- Sean
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cannonfodder
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cannonfodder
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 873
Location: Dayton, Oh
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ElektraA3,Faema2G, Isomac,...
Grinder: Cimbali, Mazzer
Vac Pot: Dont smoke pot or vac it.
Drip: Press pot
Roaster: Hottop, drum roaster
Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 1:36pm
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

I had thought about trying this with a TC using the same basic approach. I work for a restaurant supply company so we have more than a few TC that we use for QC checking. They occasionally break the wires from one of the type K probes. I could hack the probe body the same way, remove the innards and braze the TC housing just as I did this one. Then reassemble and repair the lead. I just have to get a reader to plug the probe into.

But like srwven stated, consistency is the primary concern for this application. Now if I was product testing I would use a TC with a logging rig attached to a computer, but that is a horse of another color.

 
Dave Stephens
www.home-barista.com
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AnnP
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AnnP
Joined: 10 May 2005
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Posted Thu Jul 14, 2005, 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Timing the cooling flush on E61 machines?
 

Ok, Cannonfodder...  I want one of those!

I'm just guessing on the flush, hoping that following the instructions will do the trick.

Sigh - I don't suppose you've thought about a small production run?

Ann
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