Posted Sat Jul 26, 2003, 2:29pm Subject: Help Needed Espresso Equipment Selection
Opening date for our new shop is nearing and we are down to the final $$/function decision on equipment. A new La Spaziale S-3 ($4K/on a 2 year lease) or a Conti two head (1 year old used) ($2K). Grinder Mazzer Super Jolly (new lease) or Used 1 year old Conti $325.
Keeping in mind we are in north Austin, TX and Espresso shops are doing alright. Both of us are from west coast orginally (SF & Seattle.)
Quality then price our priority concern. Any suggestions from a more experienced espresso master would be most appreicated. Decision..decisions..
Coffee Corral, featuring Dillanos coffee and a southwestern flair, sassy cowgirl kinda of stuff. Gee we also breed Paint Horses (our other passion) so decorating the shop was a natural fit.
All your equipment options are excellent. Nevertheless, you'll be serving dishwater, unless you can get the best possible training and support. So this is the area you should be checking out most.
The best espresso shops in North America all use La Marzocco equipment supplied by Espresso Specialists. This is simply because of their training and service. They would probably want more than your current options, but it may be worth checking them out.
Thanks Jim, good input we have already gotten some training from Dillanos in Seattle. Chuck went to "Barista School" and we will be working on the equipment with different blends once we get it. My problem now is which equipment from a business standpoint. We are also having the equipment installed by Texas Coffee Roasters who are in Austin. They will also be maintaining the equipment in order to get full coverage on warranty from Atomic (the distributor of the La Spaziale). We are leaning toward the higher investment of new equipment in light of our desire to produce a quality product and for the tech support.
Any other advise on equipment or reccommendation would be greatly appreicated. How about grinder? Mazzer Super Jolly or Conti? Any performance/reliablity experience comparing these two?
Howdeee! That's cowboy/cowgirl talk.(all I know..) Anyway, There is only ONE, espresso machine to buy. LA MARZOCCO. Tell them, "make that a three group, please..". Reason for the three groups is, the boilers are the largest of the models. The four group, has two smaller brew boilers, and one large steam boiler. The larger dedicated boilers give the machine more thermal stability, and the auto-fill won't come on so often. The LaMarzocco's, also can be dialed into a near exact temperature (+/-two degrees, which is critical for making good espresso.
Around these parts, we have a term we use for nearly all espresso machines..BAR JUNK.
In lieu, of what's now out there, the Mazzer grinder would be my choice, hands down. Please make sure you have some back-up parts though. If you are planning to grind by the shot (you should), the weak points of the Mazzers, are dosing springs, and relay switches. Have ESI, rewire the relay, so the grinder operates with just the on/off switch, and keep an extra. Some brands of grinders, when dosing parts break, are able to still work somewhat. Mazzers, no. Fortunatly, all these parts are cheap.
What are you planning to use for brewed coffee? Are you that sold on the coffee which you mentioned? One thing I, might want to add- here in the northwest, it's getting to the point that, if you don't present your drinks with coffee art, customers look down at your ability,in comparison with other coffee shops. To do coffee art well, in a high volume situation, your blend needs to have a high viscosity. It really helps if the blend has robusta beans in it.
Excuze my ignorance but what is the "art" in serving that you refer to? We are pretty sold on Dillanos, professional staff & quick customer support, beans good (for a Texas gal, I like the Big Sky & Dillanos orginal blend personally) hubby goes for the darker stuff. What other roasters do you recommend and why? I assumed that the La Marzocco was too expensive for our start up in the Texas Hill Country. We are not downtown so moving into the set up expense wisely was our intent at first. Kinda see how it goes, get equipment paid for a bit then branch out to the more "uptown" equip if the business supported it. Know we can see java here but do we have downtown type of clients...remains to been seen. Also serving deli sandwiches, chai teas, fruit tea (mango is my fav). So tell me about ART.... Big Al the coffee corral gal (Alynette)
O heck excuze my spelling too...meant to say we can sell coffee here, spellcheck is not available online (smile) O well just a country girl... Hey our second home away from heat (Austin) is in Lakebay nar Home just a hop (ferry ride)away from Bremerton. But I heard that it was 90 today in the sound. I will be going back out to Seattle after the shop opens...if the shop ever opens. Been busy with orders email, price checks on last bits of equipment..still have not decided on Espresso equipment yet..and heck we are suppose to open next week (panic)
We are using brew pots/dispenser type for the drip coffee. What do you recommend???
When I want I home brewed cup I use an old pot I got from my mom. Dad was a truck driver in SF and we always had a pot of coffee on the stove. Lets see it must be 80 years old? and still going strong. Makes the best coffee in the world. Its made of cast iron and has a wood handel with a metal filter inside that pulls out. You either pour in hot water, let to brew for a while then pull out the filter. Or you can heatup the water to a boil with coffee in it up (kinda hobo style) but you have to watch that you do not over do the boiling process...showing my age now..anyway thanks for the input, I made note of the extra parts for the Jolly. THANKS Al
Howdeeeee,again! Well, today it's going to be a whopping 95 degrees! 'Purtey hot for the ol northwest. Milk art patterns, can help make your business stand out, from the crowd. A lot of people on this web site do a great job of this, right from their homes. Owen(phaelon56), can make these patterns, about as well as most pros.
Please allow me to tell you a short story, that's not all that uncommon. It's about how most of us started, back in the eighties, or early nineties. I thought I, was being sooo smart in aligning myself with a roaster who sold espresso equipment. 'Figured he knew a whole lot more than I did. Besides - He was selling me the machine at almost his cost, to get my wholesale business. (I wasn't roasting,till a few years later). Anyway, this great machine deal I, had, wasn't becomming the deal I, had thought. i'd run the machine out of steam regularly, and I noticed some of the shots, would be almost whiteish in color. Anyhow, after only four months, my great deal two-group machine, hit the backroom for good. I did my research, and got my ample postirior down to ESI, and gladly paid for my first LaMarzocco. That machine is still in use today! These guys all say"You can get around the temp. problems by temperature surfing" but who has the time to pulse water out the heads, up to ten times prior to brewing the shot?? Besides, the basic problem with single boiler machines, is the temperature will still wander up and down, while the accual shot is being extracted. This makes bad coffee. ESI's web site has a lease calculator. You will thank me some day... Coffee brewers, I favor, American Metalware (Grindmaster Co). I, like the bypass feature, which allows me to use the amount of coffee weight, I, want without overflowing the baskets. (More on this, one of my pet peeves i.e. brewing mistakes of most retailers, in another post, if your interested). One can find these brewers, in the northwest used, and refurbed, from some of the restaurant supply co.s.
E-mail me, and I, can give you the names, of some of the better roasters to check out. I, don't think it's something that's appropriate to say through the 'geek website.
Excuze my ignorance but what is the "art" in serving that you refer to? We are pretty sold on Dillanos, professional staff & quick customer support, beans good (for a Texas gal, I like the Big Sky & Dillanos orginal blend personally) hubby goes for the darker stuff. What other roasters do you recommend and why? I assumed that the La Marzocco was too expensive for our start up in the Texas Hill Country. We are not downtown so moving into the set up expense wisely was our intent at first. Kinda see how it goes, get equipment paid for a bit then branch out to the more "uptown" equip if the business supported it. Know we can see java here but do we have downtown type of clients...remains to been seen. Also serving deli sandwiches, chai teas, fruit tea (mango is my fav). So tell me about ART.... Big Al the coffee corral gal (Alynette)
For latte art see: here and here for just a couple of articles. Use the search function on the home page of Coffeegeek using the words "latte art" without the quotes and you will get plenty of information.
Are you using coffee roasted in Washington? If you are, how are you going about dealing with the freshness issues? Texas Coffee Roasters are a fairly big operation (as opposed to an in shop roaster) and can get you fresh roasted beans. It would be nice to let your customers know the day the espresso was roasted. So many shops in the Asutin area take fairly good espresso beans and pour an average to below average shot.
Your committment to quality is admirable and appreciated. Freshly roasted beans, good equipment and well trained baristas will help ensure a good product.
Let us know when you open and I'll stop by and give you a holler.
Thanks Jim, good input we have already gotten some training from Dillanos in Seattle. Chuck went to "Barista School" and we will be working on the equipment with different blends once we get it. My problem now is which equipment from a business standpoint. We are also having the equipment installed by Texas Coffee Roasters who are in Austin. They will also be maintaining the equipment in order to get full coverage on warranty from Atomic (the distributor of the La Spaziale). We are leaning toward the higher investment of new equipment in light of our desire to produce a quality product and for the tech support.
Any other advise on equipment or reccommendation would be greatly appreicated. How about grinder? Mazzer Super Jolly or Conti? Any performance/reliablity experience comparing these two?
I'm glad you both are trained in espresso making; it's an important start. But here's some buts (sad to say)
Most cafe owners come to regret equipment/roast coffee package deals, you can check the alt.coffee archive by searching in http://groups.google.com/ Another resource is the SCAA
Roasters are easy to pick. Ask for an invite to their facility for a cupping session. There you can try their various offerings, and sit in as they sample greens to buy. Check out if they have an espresso machine to test their espresso blends. Did they give you some "proprietary" gobbleygook and a no when you asked? Take a walk; serious roasters want to talk coffee till you drop.
Equipment sellers. Again fairly simple, ask for their customer list so you can call around. ESI (link in my last post) has the best cafes. This is because they have great service, and even more because they listen to the owners. They own LM, and the cafe owners suggestions end up in the machines' designs. This gives their customers an unmatched access to the best practices. La Cimbali and a few others make machines just as good as LM. but frankly, their US represenations simply aren't up to that standard.
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