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Yet another HX flush question
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Yet another HX...  
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Ozark_61
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Posted Fri Jul 22, 2005, 3:56pm
Subject: Yet another HX flush question
 

I read the HX Love article on HB and am having a problem getting one point through my head...

I understand convention that you have to limit the cool down flush to avoid over cooling the gh.  Why is this true when the 'water dance' chart levels out at 204' from about 7 seconds on (to infinity it appears)?

Geoff
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RapidCoffee
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Posted Fri Jul 22, 2005, 4:15pm
Subject: Re: Yet another HX flush question
 

Ozark_61 Said:

I understand convention that you have to limit the cool down flush to avoid over cooling the gh.  Why is this true when the 'water dance' chart levels out at 204' from about 7 seconds on (to infinity it appears)?

Posted July 22, 2005 link

I don't think that overcooling is a problem. The group head may actually be overheated until you flush a couple extra ounces after the sputtering stops.
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JonR10
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Posted Fri Jul 22, 2005, 6:16pm
Subject: Re: Yet another HX flush question
 

The group head does not ever get overcooled unless you turn the machine off.  The group of a thermosyphon machine is actively heated using boiler water (so the flush doesn't cool it down very much).  

As far as I know there is no "convention that you have to limit the cool down flush to avoid over cooling the gh".  IIRC there is no such statement made in Dan's article (as always, I could be wrong).

I can let my machine flow and flow and flow and flow for well over a minute and the temperature reaches a steady point and stays there.  As long as I start my shot within about 30 seconds after flushing it always comes out pretty well for me.

 
Jon Rosenthal
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mattyj
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Posted Fri Jul 22, 2005, 6:40pm
Subject: Re: Yet another HX flush question
 

In the Grimac Mia review, Malachi mentions the 'professional' version of the cooling flush, done just before pulling a shot, rather than before the dose, distribute, tamp.

Does anyone else do it this way?
How long do you flush for/what amount of water do you flush/what signs are you looking for?

My reasons for asking are that next month I'm getting an expobar, and I'm not confident that my technique is good enough to have it all (the D.D.T. step) done in 30 seconds ... which, IIRC would mean that the group would get too hot again, and I'd need to flush again.
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JonR10
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Posted Fri Jul 22, 2005, 6:59pm
Subject: Re: Yet another HX flush question
 

mattyj Said:

I'm not confident that my technique is good enough to have it all (the D.D.T. step) done in 30 seconds ... which, IIRC would mean that the group would get too hot again, and I'd need to flush again.

Posted July 22, 2005 link

First I DDT, then (for a milk drink) I steam my milk.  Finally I flush and immediately lock in and pull the shot.   Click Here to see my typical sequence.

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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RapidCoffee
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Posted Fri Jul 22, 2005, 7:21pm
Subject: Re: Yet another HX flush question
 

mattyj Said:

In the Grimac Mia review, Malachi mentions the 'professional' version of the cooling flush, done just before pulling a shot, rather than before the dose, distribute, tamp. Does anyone else do it this way?

Posted July 22, 2005 link

Yes, for reasons of consistency. I can't time the DDT ritual exactly, but it's very easy to get consistent timing on the FLP (flush, lock, pull shot). For a hotter brew temp, you can HX temp surf (by allowing the water to heat up in the HX before pulling the shot). There have been quite a few CG posts on this. But IMHO this shouldn't be necessary if the boiler temp/pressure is set correctly.

mattyj Said:

How long do you flush for/what amount of water do you flush/what signs are you looking for?

Posted July 22, 2005 link

I follow Dan's guidelines: flush until the sputtering stops, then flush a couple more ounces. I'd guess a 4-6oz flush is typical for me.
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malachi
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Posted Fri Jul 22, 2005, 8:58pm
Subject: Re: Yet another HX flush question
 

mattyj Said:

In the Grimac Mia review, Malachi mentions the 'professional' version of the cooling flush, done just before pulling a shot, rather than before the dose, distribute, tamp.

Does anyone else do it this way?
How long do you flush for/what amount of water do you flush/what signs are you looking for?

My reasons for asking are that next month I'm getting an expobar, and I'm not confident that my technique is good enough to have it all (the D.D.T. step) done in 30 seconds ... which, IIRC would mean that the group would get too hot again, and I'd need to flush again.

Posted July 22, 2005 link

Different resulting brew temp profiles.

Best option for almost everyone is the Water Dance, but you can choose to do it immediately before pulling the shot or immediately before building it depending on what profile you want.
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Ozark_61
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Posted Fri Jul 22, 2005, 9:41pm
Subject: Re: Yet another HX flush question
 

About halfway down the HX Love page, Dan writes:

"If youíve pulled a shot within the last five minutes, youíll need to pay extra attention because the cooling flush will be much shorter than if the machine has been idle for 10-15 minutes (on the order of ľ the amount of water). You may hear only a brief hiss and thatís it. Donít draw too much water or the next extraction will be under temperature (sour)."

That's the 'convention' I was talking about... but it sounds like it might be a party of one?


JonR10 Said:

The group head does not ever get overcooled unless you turn the machine off.  The group of a thermosyphon machine is actively heated using boiler water (so the flush doesn't cool it down very much).  

As far as I know there is no "convention that you have to limit the cool down flush to avoid over cooling the gh".  IIRC there is no such statement made in Dan's article (as always, I could be wrong).

I can let my machine flow and flow and flow and flow for well over a minute and the temperature reaches a steady point and stays there.  As long as I start my shot within about 30 seconds after flushing it always comes out pretty well for me.

Posted July 22, 2005 link

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JonR10
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JonR10
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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Location: Houston, Texas
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Espresso: E61 Legend, Livietta,...
Grinder: Robur, B-Vario-W
Vac Pot: Hario Tabletop, Yama...
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: 1-lb US Roaster, Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Jul 22, 2005, 9:54pm
Subject: Re: Yet another HX flush question
 

I suppose I could be wrong, like I said...
(And I was absolutely wrong about the article reference)

The specifics will depend on your machine's design and boiler setting...

But my coolest steady-state temp is maybe 202F (IIRC) so like I said I can flow water until the drip tray fills up and still lock and load and pull a good-temperature shot every time.

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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RapidCoffee
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RapidCoffee
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Posted Fri Jul 22, 2005, 10:38pm
Subject: Re: Yet another HX flush question
 

Ozark_61 Said:

About halfway down the HX Love page, Dan writes:

"If youíve pulled a shot within the last five minutes, youíll need to pay extra attention because the cooling flush will be much shorter than if the machine has been idle for 10-15 minutes (on the order of ľ the amount of water). You may hear only a brief hiss and thatís it. Donít draw too much water or the next extraction will be under temperature (sour)."

Posted July 22, 2005 link

Now I see your confusion! I don't understand this either. Perhaps Dan would care to explain...?
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