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Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

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Giovani
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Sydney
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 3 group astoria
Grinder: looking for one
Roaster: lol

Posted Sun Aug 3, 2003, 7:03pm Subject: Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

I've purchased an Astoria SAE3 (3 group automatic). Its a 1996 model but has been poorly maintained. I've been told everything functions but its not working as it should (it makes poor coffee - vague I know, but I'm relying on the previous owner). Much to my wifes delight, its sitting in our kitchen (where I intend to work on it). I want to restore it back to what it is capable of. Some of my questions are; Is a total overhaul required? Should I attack a particular part first and see if that fixes things? If so, what would be the priority of parts I should restore/clean? Am I insane? The boiler is currently full of water. Can I empty it? How do I clean a boiler? I have been trying to find previous discussions like this and have found some which have been a great help. If there are any which people can think of please let me know.

fad
Senior Member

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 633
Location: Sydney, Australia
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Grimac La Uno, Isomac...
Grinder: Mazzer SJ. Cunill...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos
Drip: SwissGold
Roaster: Ron Kyle BBQ Drum,...

Posted Mon Aug 4, 2003, 1:15am
Subject: Re: Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

Giovani Said:

I've purchased an Astoria SAE3 (3 group automatic). Its a 1996
model but has been poorly maintained. I've been told everything
functions but its not working as it should (it makes poor coffee
- vague I know, but I'm relying on the previous owner). Much to
my wifes delight, its sitting in our kitchen (where I intend to
work on it). I want to restore it back to what it is capable of.
Some of my questions are

1. Is a total overhaul required?

Most likely. Unfortunately, maintenence done by cafes is usually along the lines of wipe surface with damp cloth.

2. Should I attack a particular part first and see if that fixes things? If so, what would be the priority of parts I should restore/clean?

Disclaimer: I'm not an espresso machine tech. No doubt they'll be along shortly to make suggestions, and critique mine.
That said, try the following in any order, and let us know the results:

water debit: stick a cup under each group and measure how much water is coming out. Should be 65 to 90ml per 10 seconds, with 90ml being optimum
water temp: using a styrofoam or paper cup and a thermometer, check the water temperature. Should be around 190-205F (88-96C)
volumetric check. does the single-shot button produce the same amount of water each time? Double-shot? Triple?
visual check. Check & clean groupheads. Open it up. Check for rust, internal water leaks.

General maintenence suggestions:

Open it up & vacuum it out
de-scale it
backflush each group
adjust pressurestat

Obligatory stupid question

are you using fresh coffee, and grinding it freshly before brewing, using a proper grinder?

3. Am I insane?

Yes. Welcome to the club ;)

4. The boiler is currently full of water. Can I empty it? How do I clean a boiler?

There are lots of threads on alt.coffee about machine maintenence. Here is one on boiler de-scaling.

Barry Jarrett has a couple of photo essays on machine clean/rebuilds here. Hopefully your machine is in better shape, but they should give you some ideas.

Your profile shows you as being in Sydney. I'd love to take a look at it and make (expensive) suggestions sometime.

Lastly, I have a prediction for you. Your new best friend (and wife's worst enemy) will be Dom @ CoffeeParts <g>

Cheers

Paul Haddon
Sydney, Aus

Frenchie
Senior Member

Joined: 4 Jun 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Sydney
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Zaffiro
Grinder: Mazzer Mini

Posted Mon Aug 4, 2003, 3:31pm
Subject: Re: Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

Giovani Said:

I want to restore it back to what it is capable of.

I attended the Machine and Grinder Maintenance Workshop held by the TGCI. Run by a professional technician, he'll explain the inner details of a professional machine (the various valves, pump, pressurestat etc.). The latter alone has a huge impact, as it regulates the pressure (& temp) in the boiler and, (in)directly, the water temperature of the water for the brew. Important to know when it needs replacing.

Well worth the $120 in your case, I'd say. I learned heaps. Next course is early September, I believe.

Cheers, Frenchie

koffeekev
Senior Member

Joined: 21 Jul 2002
Posts: 693
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Posted Mon Aug 4, 2003, 5:07pm Subject: Re: Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

The good news is........................... The Astoria is remarkably easy to work on and can take tons of abuse before it's ready to lie down and die. Take the outer body off and store it somewhere safe. Same goes for the front and top panels. Look around and you will find the panel knobs near the steam wands. Once everything is off you will get a much clearer sense of what will be required of you. Some of the back panels on these machines come off in several sections, don't be afraid to take a photo for reassembly. The first thing I would do is take out the element and remove the boiler cover. If you need to drain it first, remove the bottom bolt that attaches the site glass assembly. Careful now, use two wrenches so you don't break the glass. Empty the boiler, remove the element, remove the boiler cover. Reach in and feel each (3) heat exchanger. Are they solid with no cracks? Good. How much lime scale is evident? A commercial espresso machine consists of two components, the boiler and everything else attached to it. If the boiler is good then everything else is repairable. If you want to do it right you will need to dismantle and check the following; 1) pump and pump motor 2) 3 way solenoids 3) inlet valve 4) manual fill valve 5) group heads (take apart, clean, replace gaskets) 6) pressurestat 7) anti-siphon valve, fill probe, pressure relief (clean, check and possibly replace) 8) site glass assembly 9) each and every tube and fitting 10) flow meters This is a start. To give you an idea of a time frame I am able to do a total rebuild in about a day. That is if I have all the parts and don't run into any disasters. Parts are available for these everywhere. This is all for now, start and feel free to throw questions on this thread, we could do an interactive refurb similar to the Grindmaster one. Kevin

Giovani
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Sydney
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 3 group astoria
Grinder: looking for one
Roaster: lol

Posted Mon Aug 4, 2003, 11:10pm Subject: Re: Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

Fad, Frenchie and KoffeeKev, thanks heaps for the starting points, guidance and links. That will keep me going for a while (1 day?(:o I wish!!! I tip my hat, I'm giving myself 6 months). I'm at the steep end of the learning curve here. I will certainly keep you posted on my progress and I certainly will appreciate the opportunity of tackling each step with some assistance along the way. Some fellow Sydney siders! Once its hooked up I'll let you know. May be in Newcastle though where the warehouse is. Also depends on how insane u are ;) And, KoffeeKev, throwing some weight behind the discussion. Much appreciated. Looks like us Aussies helping the USA a little in Iraq is paying dividends. And I'm looking into the course. Just need to get the time away from family (my wife's due on the 4 September so it might mean missing the Sep course. Sounds fun though. Thanks again CK

Giovani
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Sydney
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 3 group astoria
Grinder: looking for one
Roaster: lol

Posted Wed Aug 6, 2003, 10:31pm Subject: Re: Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

Here are some pics of the machine showing the outside of the boiler. Along the brazing line there appear to be a few spots of fine barnacles (see pic 1a). (hopefully the pic appears) I removed the element which appears to be quite black and scaley. Much of the scale was on the inside of the boiler floating around (pic 2) Now, I undid all the bolts holding the end of the boiler on, they came off easily. But I can't seem to pull the end of the boiler off (pic 3). I have not tried to lever it off or hit it with a hammer. I thought I would seek advice before forcing anything. Should it come off easily? Other observations include; The lower bung of the boiler also appears to be full of solder or blocked off somehow (pic 4). Some of the elements in the box for controlling the boiler pressure/temp appear slightly charred with black soot on the inside of the cover. (Click for larger image)

Giovani
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Sydney
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 3 group astoria
Grinder: looking for one
Roaster: lol

Posted Wed Aug 6, 2003, 10:56pm Subject: Re: Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

here is the scaley element (Click for larger image)

Giovani
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Sydney
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 3 group astoria
Grinder: looking for one
Roaster: lol

Posted Wed Aug 6, 2003, 10:57pm Subject: Re: Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

here is the boiler end which I can't get off (Click for larger image)

Giovani
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Sydney
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 3 group astoria
Grinder: looking for one
Roaster: lol

Posted Wed Aug 6, 2003, 11:02pm Subject: Re: Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

here is the lower bung which seems filled up (Click for larger image)

Giovani
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Sydney
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 3 group astoria
Grinder: looking for one
Roaster: lol

Posted Wed Aug 6, 2003, 11:03pm Subject: Re: Repair of a 1996 3 group Astoria which has been poorly maintained

here is the electrical box with the unusual black soot inside it. (Click for larger image)

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