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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New Silvia, very...  
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haak
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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 71
Location: Surrey, BC
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Andreja
Grinder: Milano
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Posted Sun Dec 4, 2005, 10:13pm
Subject: Re: New Silvia, very fast extraction
 

Pressure on Silvias is set too high. "Silvia pressure mod vs. Isomac Venus"
or "question about Rancilio Silvia, taste and pressure adjustment"
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SquareH
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Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Denver, CO
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: AstraPro
Drip: Old Mr. Coffee/Melitta/Press...
Posted Sun Dec 4, 2005, 10:36pm
Subject: Re: New Silvia, very fast extraction
 

Even without your own grinder, you can and should tweak your grind to your machine. What's ideal for the the coffee shop setup is unlikely to work well for you on your Silvia. Intead of getting an entire pound ground the same, ask them to give you a range of different grinds, with few ounces of each in a separate bag. I'd start where you are and go finer.

When you find something that works better you can modify the amount and the tamp to tune the shot further.  Once you find a workable grind, you're likely to need to change amount and tamp anyway to try to keep your quality up as the pre-ground coffee goes stale. Even though you're getting a grinder, I think in the beginning it's useul to keep your variables under control. Ideally you'd still be grinding for each shot but if you've got to use preground make the most of it. Consistency is key until you understand the impact of each variable and learn to use them in your favor. If you like the beans from your local shop, stick with them until you're getting the hang of the other variables.

When I used preground, typically the first day or two was very good--not quite as good as fresh ground but still reasonable. 3-4 days, it was definetely fading. 5-6 days, I was just burning up what was left in the bag and looking forward to getting  a fresh batch. I could keep the crema pretty decent into the 4th day but the bitterness was increasing. Days 5-6 were really just very dark, strong coffee. Keep it frozen and only take the bag out to measure your coffee for the next shot. Leaving the bag out would cut the staling times in half or more. This was in Denver, so for Breck, YMMV.

Hey if your shop is feels your pain,  maybe you can buy 4 oz at a time!

HH
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poison
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poison
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,163
Location: LA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Astra Pro
Grinder: Maestro Plus, Super J deal
Drip: Cone filter
Roaster: RK drum
Posted Mon Dec 5, 2005, 9:01am
Subject: Re: New Silvia, very fast extraction
 

the other thing to do with pre-ground is ask to buy coffee directly from their espresso grinder, NOT the bulk grinder set to 'espresso'. It's a lotta clackin, but if they're cool, they'll do it.
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caffeinatedjen
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 313
Location: michigan
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera B707
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Mon Dec 5, 2005, 9:46am
Subject: Re: New Silvia, very fast extraction
 

I couldn't get the coffee shop to sell me coffee from their espresso grinder, but I did get better results asking them to grind it on the "Turkish" setting instead of espresso, so you might give that a try.  
Jen
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mrgnomer
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mrgnomer
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 2,286
Location: NA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano, Silvia, Olympia...
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Roaster: Hottop programmable, IRoast2
Posted Mon Dec 5, 2005, 5:58pm
Subject: Re: New Silvia, very fast extraction
 

Breckenridge_Realtor Said:

I'm not sure what I am looking for but the pucks seem even.  I do not see anything that intuitively suggests channeling to me.  The shot would start very dark (.5 sec), then change to light brown, then go light blond at the end, with about 2.5 oz pulled in 5-7 seconds.  I would say the shot is slightly bitter.

Posted December 4, 2005 link

Sounds like the shot is going right.  You said your grinds are about 24hrs old, I think.  The bitterness could be from grinding dry beans fine enough to get a proper extraction time.  From what I understand a dense puck offers more resistance and the increased resistance to pressurized hot water will raise the extraction temp to a point that it's high enough to cause a bitter, overextracted taste to the shot.  Grinding coarser would help but the shot would pull a lot faster, most likely, as a result.

It's a hard thing to find a balance when just being off on one variable can throw off the shot.  I'm starting to appreciate why you could call a really great shot a God shot, especially with the Silvia:  God must have intervened for the 25 sec it took for all the variables to fall in line to pull the shot.

It's not easy.  I'm still struggling for perfection http://www.lucidcafe.com/cafeforum/schomertable19.html
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okaychatt
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okaychatt
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
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Location: Chattanooga, TN
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Espresso: S1 Vivaldi La Spaz
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Posted Mon Dec 5, 2005, 6:30pm
Subject: Re: New Silvia, very fast extraction
 

SquareH Said:

Keep it frozen and only take the bag out to measure your coffee for the next shot. Leaving the bag out would cut the staling times in half or more. This was in Denver, so for Breck, YMMV.

Hey if your shop is feels your pain,  maybe you can buy 4 oz at a time!

Posted December 4, 2005 link

Because coffee beans will absorb odor easily, it's not a good idea to either freeze or refrigerate roasted beans.

It's my understanding that you can freeze GREEN (unroasted) beans only.

Good advice to buy only 4 oz at a time until you can get a good grinder.  Besides, it gives you a good excuse to stop by your favorite shop.  As if any self respecting CG needs an excuse to surround herself with everything coffee.  :-)

 
Kay
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rcs914
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rcs914
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 530
Location: Tucson
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar OC, PID'd Silvia
Grinder: Lux & Cimbali Jr
Vac Pot: E-santos,Santos, Hario
Drip: Krups Moka Brew
Roaster: Turbo Crazy
Posted Mon Dec 5, 2005, 10:51pm
Subject: Re: New Silvia, very fast extraction
 

Breckenridge_Realtor Said:

I think RCS means rather than continuing to wait.  But at this point, 1st-line says the grinder should go out in about a week.

Posted December 4, 2005 link

Yes, this is exactly what I meant.  I edited my original post to reflect this.  

Chris (but not THAT chris)

 
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rcs914
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rcs914
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 530
Location: Tucson
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar OC, PID'd Silvia
Grinder: Lux & Cimbali Jr
Vac Pot: E-santos,Santos, Hario
Drip: Krups Moka Brew
Roaster: Turbo Crazy
Posted Mon Dec 5, 2005, 11:00pm
Subject: Re: New Silvia, very fast extraction
 

okaychatt Said:

It's my understanding that you can freeze GREEN (unroasted) beans only.

Posted December 5, 2005 link

DEFINITELY not the case.  In fact, I've never heard of anyone intentionally freezing green coffee.  One of the best ways of preserving coffee for use at a later date is to put it in glass mason jars immediately after roasting, before it starts to outgas.  This effectively makes it "dormant", and can be stored for about a month easily.  

Chris

 
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CraigA
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CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,245
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
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Posted Mon Dec 5, 2005, 11:48pm
Subject: Re: New Silvia, very fast extraction
 

rcs914 Said:

DEFINITELY not the case.  In fact, I've never heard of anyone intentionally freezing green coffee.

Posted December 5, 2005 link

Sorry Chris, it DEFINITELY is the case! George Howell of Terroir Coffee Company freezes all of his greens in a commercial freezer, -40C/-40F.

There's info on this site about it here in threads somewhere & I'm sure alt.coffee also. I'm too tired to look for it now (1:48am)., a couple of links for now. {;-)

http://info.terroircoffee.com/content/view/42/25/

http://info.terroircoffee.com/content/view/43/25/

About George Howell: Click Here (www.georgehowell.com)









.

 
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Excellent coffee doesn't just happen!
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rcs914
Senior Member
rcs914
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 530
Location: Tucson
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar OC, PID'd Silvia
Grinder: Lux & Cimbali Jr
Vac Pot: E-santos,Santos, Hario
Drip: Krups Moka Brew
Roaster: Turbo Crazy
Posted Tue Dec 6, 2005, 2:07am
Subject: Re: New Silvia, very fast extraction
 

CraigA Said:

Sorry Chris, it DEFINITELY is the case! George Howell of Terroir Coffee Company freezes all of his greens in a commercial freezer, -40C/-40F.

Posted December 5, 2005 link

Well, my comment regarding "DEFINITELY not" was really directed towards the "only" statement

"It's my understanding that you can freeze GREEN (unroasted) beans only.

And it is definitely not the case that you can only freeze green coffee.

I didn't realize that George was freezing all of his coffee, nor had I heard anything about it here or on alt.coffee, but it is certainly likely that I just missed the threads.  I'll check out the links.

Chris

 
Please remember CoffeeKids throughout the year:  www.coffeekids.org
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