nonFatMacchiato Senior Member Joined: 28 Dec 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Utah, Planet Earth Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Wed Dec 28, 2005, 6:57pm Subject: Starbucks Barista Video did not help
Hello Gang,
My wife bought me a Barista for Christmas (partly based on reviews here) so she could start making me my afternoon Espresso or Macchiato. She was told the video included would show her how to make the 'perfect' drink. However, the video is terrible and does no such thing. She loves trying to make my coffee drinks but how can we both learn the right way to do it? So far, they are nothing like what I am used to getting at Starbucks.
teknobeam Senior Member Joined: 4 Sep 2005 Posts: 66 Location: BC Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Starbucks Barista Grinder: Bezzera BB004 Drip: Mellita pour over
Posted Wed Dec 28, 2005, 8:55pm Subject: Re: Starbucks Barista Video did not help
TIA, Congrats on your new machine. I too own a Starbucks Barista. I watched the video three times before I attempted to make my first latte. My first attempt was better than anything I have ever had from $$, and now with the advice I have recieved on this forum, the results are much better although still not where I want to be.
First thing to pay attention to is the coffee. The minimum you should do is have Starbucks grind you some "espresso" beans and make sure to tell them it's for their Barista machine. Next, follow the steps in the video religiously except for the part where they tell you to lightly tamp the coffe in the portafilter, don't tamp it at all. when the shot starts to come out of the machine, pay close attention to it as it is pouring into the shot glass. Watch the color of the stream of coffee as it begins to fill the shot glass and when it has started to lighten in color following about 27 or so seconds from the time you push the button, then stop the process by pushing the button again. I have found the shots to be a lot less bitter this way. I f you are making milk based drinks, make the shot first, then froth the milk. For me this works better with this machine. It really helps to understand what is going on with the boiler and the lights while you are using the machine. The green light is your "GO" light. Know where in the process you are at all times ( am I about to steam milk?, am I about to make a shot?, did I prime the machine?) If you want more control over the process, you can order a non pressurized portafilter and tamper from SAECO (the original equipment manufacturer of the machine) This will yield better shots, but also requires more technique and experimentation since you will have more variables to deal with.
As far as frothing milk to perfection goes, well, that requires a lot of practice and learning. I have pulled off really good microfoam a couple of times, but it's usually average. Keep in mind it's very difficult to get great microfoam with that steam tip, but not impossible. Don't get dicouraged, but also don't expect to be cranking out a masterpiece on your first day. Good luck !
Some will say maybe it's a good thing that your coffee isn't turning out like Starbucks ;)
Research is a great way to get to know coffee and espresso. Coffeegeek, Home-Barista are great sites to learn about the essentials of good espresso.
As far as I've found, it comes down to fresh roast, even grind, even dose, good tamp and proper water temp and pressure.
A high quality roast, usually blend for espresso, ground before about 10 days from its roasting date is highly recommended for good taste and crema. An even grind produced by a high quality grinder is essential to ensure even extraction. A quanity of grind or dose that just clears the showerscreen to allow for expansion and even extraction of the uniformly dense, packed puck of coffee is another essential. The proper water temp of about 200-204F and pressure of 9 atmospheres rounds off the essentials.
So, starting with a good, fresh roast, grinding it with a quality grinder, dosing and tamping evenly and with good force and pulling your shot at a time when your machine has cylced to an ideal zone for water temp and pressure should produce shots that will blow away anything Starbucks has to offer.
Practice, practice, practice. It takes time but the effort pays great dividends if you love coffee.
Get a good grinder if you don't already have one. Watch your pulls. Time them. Look at the spent pucks to guage for dose, distribution and tamp.
With watching your pulls, look at the stream. Ideally it should be dark red brown. Once it goes really light you've either got channelling or you've reached the end of extraction and should stop. The shot should have a good amount of red/brown crema with dark flecks in it. Ideally it should taste like roasted coffee smells; sweet and with lots of character. The spent puck should be dry, evenly dense with signs of having swelled to contact the showerscreen but showing no signs of channelling (pinholes or gaps around the edges).
I've been roasting and blending my own for a couple of months now and have been pulling shots for about a month and a half. Starting out was rough but with lots of reading, experimenting and practice my shots are getting consistently good. I'd like to get to consistently great but I'm still working on it. There's a lot of subtle variables to control when pulling shots with a semi automatic machine. Like anything that requires a certain amount of skill it's hard to catch on at first but, with enough knowledge and practice, things slowly come together.
nonFatMacchiato Senior Member Joined: 28 Dec 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Utah, Planet Earth Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Thu Dec 29, 2005, 8:05am Subject: Re: Starbucks Barista Video did not help
teknobeam,
Thank you for your reply. I think our main problem is our bean grind. We have a blade grinder (from Starbucks as well) and I do not think it is able to grind fine enough. I guess learning when to stop the process will come with practice.
nonFatMacchiato Senior Member Joined: 28 Dec 2005 Posts: 3 Location: Utah, Planet Earth Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Thu Dec 29, 2005, 8:08am Subject: Re: Starbucks Barista Video did not help
mrgnomer,
Thank you for your reply. You have mentioned one thing which I am curious about. Our 'spent puck' is always wet vs. what you say, "the spent puck should be dry". What might be the cause of this?
Posted Thu Dec 29, 2005, 8:17am Subject: Re: Starbucks Barista Video did not help
nonFatMacchiato Said:
Thank you for your reply. I think our main problem is our bean grind. We have a blade grinder (from Starbucks as well) and I do not think it is able to grind fine enough. I guess learning when to stop the process will come with practice.
Yes, it does take some practice, and eventually you will conclude that having a good grinder is necessary for making the best shots at home. Soon, you will be cranking out drinks that are better than you can buy.
Regarding when to stop -- this is the part that takes experience -- you want three things to happen at the same time: reaching the target volume of your pour, approximately 27 seconds of elapsed time, and the lightening of the stream.
Posted Thu Dec 29, 2005, 8:50am Subject: Re: Starbucks Barista Video did not help
If you are using a blade grinder that is your problem. You need to get a good burr grinder or have your beans ground at a coffee shop. A blade grinder will not even get close to grinding fine enough. Plus your coffee will taste bitter.
Although the dry puck is "normal", it won't be the case with your Barista machine. Your pucks *will* be soupy since there is not a 3 way solenoid valve like "higher-end" machines. I too got a Barista for Christmas and have been using it daily all week. I'm pretty happy with it so far. I ordered a regular PF from Saeco on Tuesday so I'll see how that goes. The pucks are actually my greatest disappointment with this machine. I knew I wouldn't get nice pucks like I would have gotten if I went with the Silvia instead but I didn't expect them to be as bad as they are. I can't even knock them out most of the time. I have to *scoop* them out with a spoon ;) Hopefully the new PF will help a little since it shouldn't maintain as much water as the PPF does.
FWIW, I've found steaming *first* to be a better bet for me. I turn the machine on and release the steam knob a bit (without pressing the steam button) to get some water into a pitcher. When the green light comes on, I press the steam button and then steam/froth my milk to temp. When I'm done with the milk, I push the steam button again to turn it off and wait for the green light again. When it comes on, I press the brew button to run some water through an *empty* PF (heating it as well as my shot glasses up). When I've pulled about 4 ounces of water, I turn the brew botton off and remove the PF. This is when I dose my grinds (waiting for the green light to come back on). I empty my shot glasses (which were full of hot water) and then pull my shot :)
I wasn't able to watch the tape since I haven't had a VHS player in my house for a couple years now. I'm not sure if my "procedure" is un-orthodox or not but it's been working for me so far. I've also been using a low end (~$70) Capresso burr grinder that I've had for a while. I'm hoping to get a Rocky soon so I can get a better grind when using my new PF (hope it comes soon ;) My beans are an "espresso" blend from a local roaster.
Posted Thu Dec 29, 2005, 1:07pm Subject: Re: Starbucks Barista Video did not help
Hi nonFatMacchiato,
Your welcome in advance (YWIA):)
In my experience wet pucks are mainly due to dosing with too little grounds, problems with distributing/tamping or machine related.
I think maybe your Barista doesn't have a three way valve. If that's the case, the puck will probably be wet if you take off the portafilter right after pulling a shot.
If your machine has a three way valve, any excess pressure should be diverted into the drip tray and there shouldn't be water on the puck. So, if the puck was dosed and tamped uniformly and with sufficient pressure to create a density that allows pressurized water through evenly for about 20-30 sec for 1.5-2 oz double shot of espresso then chances are the puck will be dry, especially if you let it rest in the pf for a little while before taking out the portafilter and knocking the puck out.
If the puck isn't tamped with enough pressure, or if the tamped dose leaves too much room between the puck surface and screen pressurized water may either break up the puck and make it soupy or water may rest on top of the puck after a pull and make it soupy.
Without a 3 way valve water has to drain out of the puck so removing the pf after a few minutes should give the puck a chance to dry. With a 3 way valve the puck should be dry right after pulling a shot.
I don't always have dry pucks after every pull even though my machine has a 3 way valve. I don't know why sometimes there's water resting on top of the puck and sometimes not. Either way, the puck is dense and pretty dry when I bang it out and that's more important to me. Seeing the indentation of the showerscreen screw is also a good sign for my machine- to me it means the grounds swelled to fill the basket and encourage even water diffusion.
Starting out I had real soupy, broken up pucks after pulling a shot. It was mostly due to not dosing with enough grounds, poor uneven distribution and bad tamping technique. After dosing with more grounds and being careful with distribution and tamp slowly the pucks ended up drier and the pulls extracted more evenly for a better tasting espresso. It took a bit of perseverance and practice and I'm still trying to get it right.
The key is consistency. Consistency of grind, dose, tamp, water temp, water pressure. A blade grinder by its nature can't offer a consistent density of grounds. Since it chops the coffee randomly yet continuously, some grinds will be chopped to powder while others will remain coarse. Water at 9 atmospheres will find a path of least resistance and blow right through too coarse grinds, circumventing finer, denser grinds. The pucks won't have the even density recommended for optimum extraction. The resulting taste of the shot won't be very good even if all other perameters are good.
To help with even blade grinding I used to shake my grinder while grinding beans. It helped but getting a good burr grinder improved things more than anything else.
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