eastpresso Senior Member Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 81 Location: Japan Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Hario Skelton Vac Pot: no Drip: Hario V60 Roaster: no
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2006, 6:54am Subject: Re: Pretty new toys from Fiorenzato
The product description says the Columbina is a single boiler machine and steaming is activated by a separate switch (like on the Silvia). To answer your question - no, it is not an HX.
Worldman Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,791 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Expobar Office Control Grinder: Cimbali 6/S
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2006, 1:45pm Subject: Re: Pretty new toys from Fiorenzato
eastpresso Said:
The product description says the Columbina is a single boiler machine and steaming is activated by a separate switch (like on the Silvia). To answer your question - no, it is not an HX.
Then, why would one want this machine at its $800 sale price? You could have a Expobar HX or Bezzera HX machine for less $ and both have an HX. I can't comment for Bazzera but the Expobar does have an E61 GH. It also auto-fills the boiler and has a seperate water nozzle.
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2006, 1:54pm Subject: Re: Pretty new toys from Fiorenzato
Worldman Said:
Then, why would one want this machine at its $800 sale price? You could have a Expobar HX or Bezzera HX machine for less $ and both have an HX. I can't comment for Bazzera but the Expobar does have an E61 GH. It also auto-fills the boiler and has a seperate water nozzle.
For a cappuccino lover, this would not make sense. But for an espresso lover, temp management should be simpler on a single boiler machine than an HX. Think of it as a better Silvia.
Auto boiler refill? BFD. Hard to believe this is a selling point.
Reighlok Senior Member Joined: 2 Sep 2005 Posts: 675 Location: North Dallas, Texas Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2006, 2:02pm Subject: Re: Pretty new toys from Fiorenzato
So.... It has a e61 and a pressure gauge and costs 300-400 dollars more than a silvia. I think I'd rather have a PIDed silvia at that price, if I had my pick. Or a PIDed Columbina still at $800....
edit: I forgot the auto refill boiler. My silvia auto fills its boiler every time I make espresso or turn on the pump at all.. Since I never, ever, froth milk more than once between shots, what good is a auto refill boiler? I understand on a dual boiler or a HX, just not on a single dual purpose boiler on a espresso machine.
The Bricoletta frame is basically two metal "boxes" bolted together. The drip tray area is one "box", and the boiler, brains etc. sits on top of another formed box area. These two pieces are bolted together where the front face of the machine is. My Bricoletta has a slight twist to it that I have never bother to fix as it is very slight, but it most likley occurred from shipping it without suitable support (I bought it privately).
I have never seen the compaint/concern before in reference to the Bric, but it is funny I have the same "issue" that has appeared - must be a bit more common than perhaps I thought. I was thinking it was just mine from bad packing.
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2006, 4:23pm Subject: Re: Pretty new toys from Fiorenzato
Reighlok Said:
I forgot the auto refill boiler. My silvia auto fills its boiler every time I make espresso or turn on the pump at all.. Since I never, ever, froth milk more than once between shots, what good is a auto refill boiler? I understand on a dual boiler or a HX, just not on a single dual purpose boiler on a espresso machine.
Only thing I can think of is that it would protect your machine from an internal leak or a dripping steam wand etc. As the water slowly leaked from the boiler, the machine would keep the boiler filled so it would not fry the element. I think this is a real feature that allows a machine to be left on 24/7, but like you have stated, it is more important in other machine design, and more like insurance perhaps in this case...plus it let's them share parts with the other machines....cheaper than having two different boiler designs maybe? Plus they can market it and charge more!
Reighlok Senior Member Joined: 2 Sep 2005 Posts: 675 Location: North Dallas, Texas Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2006, 4:38pm Subject: Re: Pretty new toys from Fiorenzato
GrantT Said:
Only thing I can think of is that it would protect your machine from an internal leak or a dripping steam wand etc. As the water slowly leaked from the boiler, the machine would keep the boiler filled so it would not fry the element. I think this is a real feature that allows a machine to be left on 24/7, but like you have stated, it is more important in other machine design, and more like insurance perhaps in this case...plus it let's them share parts with the other machines....cheaper than having two different boiler designs maybe? Plus they can market it and charge more!
However it does not have a plumbed drip tray.... so if you did leave the steam wand open it would flood your kitchen with the full contents of its 3 liter water reservoir + the .75 litter boiler. Only after it flooded your kitchen would it then fry the element....
I am still thinking that it is not better with the auto refill.
Maybe it is a flaw that they are trying to sell as a feature to save money by only using one type of boiler design, like you suggested.
Kristi Senior Member Joined: 6 Oct 2005 Posts: 2,286 Location: Boston Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Evo w silvia wand Grinder: Macap M4 mod to d&s-less Roaster: (Jeff at Redbirdcoffee)
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2006, 1:51pm Subject: Re: Pretty new toys from Fiorenzato
Reighlok Said:
However it does not have a plumbed drip tray.... so if you did leave the steam wand open it would flood your kitchen with the full contents of its 3 liter water reservoir + the .75 litter boiler. Only after it flooded your kitchen would it then fry the element....
I am still thinking that it is not better with the auto refill.
Maybe it is a flaw that they are trying to sell as a feature to save money by only using one type of boiler design, like you suggested.
quoting my answer to your same question on HB - just to keep the threads in sync a little"
"LOL - I didn't realize the need either. other evening I came out and noticed boiler at pid 222F and head at 36C *normally it's up at 97C or so) - the water level was below the E61 boiler outflow, and I had, I think, only left it on for 3 or 4 hours. So the reason is a very simple protection from burning out the element if for some unexpected reason the water level gets too low. I am not perfect and heaters are expensive. - That is the main prob with the Eliane, and Isomacs - it is possible for the water level to get too low"
I regularly get up, turn Eliane on, turn pump on and open steam knob to check for air space, run till water comes out, and shut off pump and shut off knob. I then pull a tad of water through the group just to be sure there's no air in the pipes. Then I go take a shower and when I'm done 1/2 hr later, boiler is at target and group is at 96.7 and I can pull a great shot with no fuss.
The main "prob" with these machines is that they cannot be left on 24/7 because the temp slowly turns all the water to steam and the heater frys.
and some logic to isolate the pump to turn on at low level and turn off at high level. This is still very much at the thinking level and may simply result in my targeting a Bric Volante as a well-built HX. But I have just gotten Eliane and she has not yet taught me all her secrets, but she easily gives me a dreamy cup because of the STABILITY of the non-HX E61. This makes me think the Columbina would be a good choice for someone who just doesn't want to deal with the water dance. AND wants a machine they can leave on!!!
To some extent, I think the urge to sell an immediate jump of newbies to an HX machine is a bit of "misery likes company"!!! A far better jump might be to the Columbina for a while, and then to a real 2 boiler machine, leaving HXs to those with flashdance in their blood!
#--> I recommend Eric Svendson's adapter and thermometer for E61s (also Silvia) : easy surfing! # My photo albums have moved to http://picasaweb.google.com/krislema2
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