claytp Senior Member Joined: 8 Jul 2006 Posts: 3 Location: seattle Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sat Jul 8, 2006, 2:30pm Subject: Is this a good grinder?
I recently purchrased a preexisting espresso stand in Washington, the area has a lot of construction and has lost business recently so i decided to purchase it. the equipment, inventory and current staff cost me $8200
I feel it was a good deal but am considering changing a few things.
right now I have a grinder but it is small and crappy. The girls at the stand say that since we are in front of a grocery store, they just go inside and grind it as they need it with the coffee grinder they have in store. Is this a good idea for espresso drinks? i imagine the grinder is decent quality since it probably is used a lot, my concern i guesss is would other coffee grounds get into mine and affect the taste?
I know close to nothing about coffee but have been learning quickly :)
mybs Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 479 Location: Northern CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: QuickMill Anita Grinder: Macap M4, La Cimbali Jr. Drip: KitchenAid, Clever Coffee... Roaster: FreshRoast+8, SC/CO
Posted Sat Jul 8, 2006, 4:28pm Subject: Re: Is this a good grinder?
Woah...I admire your courage in jumping right into the coffee business with just minimal coffee knowledge. You'll have a lot to learn for the next few weeks to keep the business going, especially if you're near Seattle where there's a multitude of competition. In any case, you've stumbled across a good community here that can help advise you :)
To answer your first question, it's a definitive NO. Grinding your coffee at the grocery stores is not suitable for good quality espresso. Your first concern is correct in that other coffee grounds that will unforturnately mix in with yours. Furthermore, from my experience a lot of those beans going through those grocery store grinders are from flavored beans, which will be basically guaranteed to impart a flavor on your beans when you use it. Flavored beans will invariably contaminate the flavor of the beans you plan to use. Second, most grocery grinders will not be capable of grinding evenly or finely enough for espresso. Third, coffee grounds will stale within minutes of being ground. This means that for espresso, you'll need to grind the beans just right before you're ready to pull the shot. Doing otherwise will result in the use of stale grounds and produce sub par espresso. Fourth, the grind settings for your beans will likely change on a day to day basis based on age of the beans, temperature, humidity, etc. Thus, it will be necessary to change the grind settings to match the optimal extraction that you will want. This does mean that you could go through a 1/2 pound or more just to set the espresso machine.
Investing in a good quality grinder is a MUST if you want to prepare good espresso drinks. Most of the small local cafes around here use the Mazzer Super Jolly, if you're looking for a recommendation. There are cheaper home espresso grinders available, but considering that yours may be a high volume business, the Super Jolly may be a good investment for you.
The primary issue that you'll want to address for espresso is the age and quality of the beans that you are using. There is a very large difference between fresh roasted and "old" (>2 week from roast date) beans. The packaging of the beans doesn't matter so much as the date roasted, because the packaging cannot prevent the resulting staling of the beans after the can or bag has been opened.
With the initial investment, you probably already have a multi-group commercial espresso machine. The main thing I want to emphasize there is the necessity to keep things clean! You want to be wiping down the milk frothing wand after each use. You'll want to clean out the grouphead with backflushing detergent at least at the end of the day. You'll want to wipe clean your portafilters with each use. Cleaning is an extremely important part in keeping things running long and keeping your customers happy and not sick.
Finally, you may want to undergo some sort of professional barista training so that you're familiar with the steps needed to brew espresso drinks. You can also send the people who work for you to these classes but legitimate training doesn't come too cheaply. Nonetheless, the person behind the machine should know what they're doing and thus should be properly trained for this. The comment concerning the girls at the stand seems to indicate that they have never undergone such training and lack the practical knowledge needed to brew good espresso.
Good luck with your business. Since I've never worked in such an atmosphere, you're likely to get much better advice from others here concerning such things. Nonetheless, I hope this helps.
olypdd Senior Member Joined: 3 Jan 2003 Posts: 54 Location: Puyallup, Wa. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano, Elektra... Grinder: Mazzer Mini, Innova... Drip: Only when I'm desperate and... Roaster: Espresso Vivace from Seattle
Posted Sun Jul 9, 2006, 11:41pm Subject: Re: Is this a good grinder?
I would take the advice on the Mazzer. Superduty and incredibly easy to fine tune the grind. Since you've come to coffee geek, read the forums and check our Home Barista's site as well.
claytp Senior Member Joined: 8 Jul 2006 Posts: 3 Location: seattle Expertise: Just starting
Posted Thu Jul 13, 2006, 9:42pm Subject: Re: Is this a good grinder?
thanks for all your recommendations.
I have been reading and have begun to correct some of the things i've seen with my stand.
Coffee: they keep grinding enough coffee to fill a large container which is about half a can of ground coffee! omg that is way too much! The ice: they have been using Shaved ice because it is free but I am moving to cubed ice even if we have to pay for it. albertsons has been gracious but it seems cheap and sub-par.
the machine is a faema (spelling) and has three groups. It gets cleaned twice daily using the cleaning detergent (i'm running out, i wonder where i can get more, i'm sure the girls will know).
I also invested in a new register becasue the old one was crap ($250). i felt it was the first thing to do because i had no safety guards to deter employee theft (its cash only so it's possible).
mcKoffee Senior Member Joined: 29 Dec 2001 Posts: 849 Location: Vancouver WA USA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Bricoletta, Audrey, LM 3&4AV... Grinder: Mazzer Major,SJ, Rocky,... Vac Pot: Gold Royal Balance Drip: When it rains...Moka, FPs Roaster: USRC3k,CCR HT, Behmor, Cafe...
Posted Thu Jul 13, 2006, 10:10pm Subject: Re: Is this a good grinder?
claytp Said:
I recently purchrased a preexisting espresso stand in Washington, the area has a lot of construction and has lost business recently so i decided to purchase it. the equipment, inventory and current staff cost me $8200
I feel it was a good deal but am considering changing a few things.
right now I have a grinder but it is small and crappy. The girls at the stand say that since we are in front of a grocery store, they just go inside and grind it as they need it with the coffee grinder they have in store. Is this a good idea for espresso drinks? i imagine the grinder is decent quality since it probably is used a lot, my concern i guesss is would other coffee grounds get into mine and affect the taste?
I know close to nothing about coffee but have been learning quickly :)
First I wish you luck. But I'll be honest, this type of thing is why the vast majority of espresso stands and cafes serve swill and call it espresso. Get some professional help if you want to run a quality operation. I guarantee what's being served from your stand now isn't even close to quality and nothing I'd drink.
This isn't meant to be harsh. But buying a business that you say yourself you know close to nothing about the product to be served? It'll take literally years to gain a grasp of what goes into good espresso. But in truth pull swill and dump in milk and sugared flavorings in it topped with whipped cream and the majority of people will buy it.
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