Posted Thu Oct 5, 2006, 5:12pm Subject: Re: Can you tell me about these machines
Seth,
The espresso machine choices are tantamount to irrelevant if you do not have a quality grinder. What type of grinder do you have or have you allowed room in the budget for one? If you do not have one, the Cunil Tranquillo is about $200.00 and has a good reputation.
pinkandgeek Senior Member Joined: 4 Oct 2006 Posts: 3 Location: St. Marys, Georgia Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Oct 5, 2006, 5:20pm Subject: Re: Can you tell me about these machines
i allowed $200 in the budget for a grinder. i don't want to go over $1000 for grinder and machine. I want a machine that will perform well and can make a good espresso and a good ristretto. I understand that both of those depend on my own skill, which i know i need work on.
Posted Thu Oct 5, 2006, 5:28pm Subject: Re: Can you tell me about these machines
pinkandgeek Said:
i allowed $200 in the budget for a grinder. i don't want to go over $1000 for grinder and machine. I want a machine that will perform well and can make a good espresso and a good ristretto. I understand that both of those depend on my own skill, which i know i need work on.
mybs Senior Member Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 453 Location: Northern CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: QuickMill Anita Grinder: Macap M4, La Cimbali Jr. Drip: KitchenAid, Clever Coffee... Roaster: FreshRoast+8, SC/CO
Posted Thu Oct 5, 2006, 6:07pm Subject: Re: Can you tell me about these machines
More likely he says that because the Venus is a single boiler machine, meaning that you'll have some waiting time between brewing the espresso and steaming the milk. Making milk-based espresso drinks with any single boiler can be fairly inconvenient, especially if you plan to make more than 2 drinks at a time very often. The more drinks you plan to make the more time you'll need to spend waiting on both cooling in order to brew the espresso and heating to produce steam for frothing milk. The Expobar is a heat exchanger.
Of the three that you've mentioned, the Expobar is likely your best bet for quality drinks. However at that same price range, I'd probably recommend going with the Bezzera BZ02S at $750. You may want to spend a bit more on the grinder. While the Cunill Tranquilo has been fairly well recommended across the forums, people who have upgraded to a Mazzer/Macap/Cimbali class grinder have noted a very significant difference in the quality of the espresso shot. For quality espresso, the grind can make a larger difference than most people are willing to initially believe.
Posted Thu Oct 5, 2006, 7:57pm Subject: Re: Can you tell me about these machines
Only recently, 1st line was offering $100 off many of their grinders with the purchase of an espresso machine in the price range of the Venus. You could, for instance, get a Macap MC4 for $339 after the discount, and that would keep you well within your range, but it looks like this offer may have expired (though you should certainly look into it). In the end, I went for a combo you have not mentioned– the Quick Mill Alexia and QM Doserless Stepless Grinder. I'm very happy with the choice, and it seems that chris coffee is still offering a deal on the pair. I don't mean to complicate matters, but here's the link to the offer on home-barista.
It's a worthy consideration. I'm sure Chris would be glad to discuss your decision with you. He helped me, and it was only at the last minute that I turned from the Venus/Macap combo to the other, which is to say Chris is remarkably UNpushy. Jim at 1st line, too, seems to be very helpful.
I seem to have broken the rule that the grinder is more important than the machine. But it doesn't appear to be a profound breaking of the rule, as the grinder has worked beautifully for me.
If this doesn't appeal to you, and if the deal is off on the grinders at 1st line, I would go for the Expobar and something like the CT, as others have suggested. But let me be clear that I have used none of them. It's only a hunch based on reading many, many reviews.
mcKoffee Senior Member Joined: 29 Dec 2001 Posts: 785 Location: Vancouver WA USA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Bricoletta, Audrey, LM 3AV... Grinder: Mazzer Major,SJ, Rocky,... Vac Pot: Gold Royal Balance Drip: When it rains...Moka, FPs Roaster: USRC3k,CCR HT, Behmor, Cafe...
Posted Thu Oct 5, 2006, 8:20pm Subject: Re: Can you tell me about these machines
While if doing milk drinks an HX is far more convenient than a single boiler, I'd do a whole bunch of research into both Expobar machine service issues and Expobar's primary vendor's service before I'd touch any Expobar with a ten foot pole. Which is to say an Expobar would be my choice of last resort.
OTH overall service ratings for both Chris' Coffee and 1st Line tend to be first rate and I have and would continue to do business with both. I'd call both and ask about any buyers remorse returned HX machine & grinders.
Oh, and Francis! Francis! machines are made to look stylishly good, period.
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