Clingstone Senior Member Joined: 18 Nov 2002 Posts: 126 Location: Boston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Isomac Tea and FF X3 Grinder: Rocky D.Less and Virtuoso Roaster: iRoast
Posted Tue Oct 24, 2006, 12:27pm Subject: Re: francis francis vs gaggia
acoustic Said:
Please don't buy a Francis Francis unless you want an all show and no go show piece on the counter. My machine has been nothing but trouble and Francis Francis USA won't stand behind the product. Mine does not put out a high enough temp and it's also very inconsistent ranging from 159F on the high end to 149F by the end of a shot. It also can't steam for more than 60 seconds without running out of good steam pressure! My machine is less than a year old and they want close to $400.00 w/shipping to fix it. I'm going to buy a Rancilio Silvia to replace my piece of crap Francis Francis X1!!!!!
Don't buy a Francis Francis!!!!
Francis Francis if you care about your reputation and want me to stop the bad press on your product FIX MY MACHINE at your cost! If you're reading this you can e-mail me at the following (but don't forget to remove the word "removethis") from the e-mail address: halekai36@removethishotmail.com
I have to stick up for FF at least a little bit. I got a refurbished FF X3 from Whole Latte Love on ebay for around $275 and am very happy with it. I use it at home, while I pull most of my shots on my Isomac Tea at work. At the going price of $495 I wouldn't touch the FF though. Get a Silvia for that price! My brother and sister in law recently bought a Gaggia Coffee de Lux refurbished also from WLL (I don't work for them I swear!) for around $225, and I think all things being equal I'd go for the Gaggia. The FF is definitely cooler looking and I'm able to pull quality shots. Frothing is adequate but don't mess around because it runs out of steam pretty quickly. With the Gaggia you get a commercial 58mm portafilter, it's built like a tank, the pump seems a lot more powerfu, and steaming is better as well. I really think you'd be happy with either, but I think if I had to do it all over again, I would have gone with the Gaggia.
Good luck!
"AND THE BOSTON RED SOX HAVE WON THE WORLD SERIES! CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!!??"
49express Senior Member Joined: 7 Nov 2003 Posts: 253 Location: Denver Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Francis Francis X5 Grinder: Rancilio Rocky Doserless Drip: Braun
Posted Tue Oct 24, 2006, 5:31pm Subject: Re: francis francis vs gaggia
Tadaoo Lots of discussion about these two machines. For what it's worth, my experience with an FFX5 has been quite good and I enjoy what I'm able to make with it. A friend has an X3 and has expressed that the steam arm is just too short, otherwise she uses it alot and likes it. Another couple I know recently went to an X1 (good deal on Ebay) after their Gaggia died. To be fair, they only use Illy pods, but that's all they used with their Gaggia, too. Bonne chance!
tadaoo Senior Member Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 24 Location: paris, france Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: gaggia classic Grinder: coming up
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006, 1:50am Subject: Re: francis francis vs gaggia
Worldman Said:
Tad,
"HX" stands for "heat exchanger". In an HX mchine, the brew water passes through a tubing which runs through the boiler (the heat exchanger) and is flash heated by the HX. Ergo, one can brew espresso while frothing milk. My machine (Expobar Office Control) was only $500 NEW through Ebay.
I don't think i need HX machine yet as my milk consumption is close to zero... but your Expobar looks nice.
I contacted CREM Aparatos Cafespres S.L. (http://www.expobar.com/index_en.htm) to get some documentation on their products, as they have also smaller percolators such as the Expobar Cremita and the Expobar Plus Express, and they do distribute in France, which is a plus compare to Gaggia.
I have not heard of Expobar before and i have not seen in on the web forums until you mentioned it; Any idea how the Cremita and the Plus Express perform? Are those machines suitable for home use?
tadaoo Senior Member Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 24 Location: paris, france Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: gaggia classic Grinder: coming up
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006, 2:58am Subject: Re: francis francis vs gaggia
49express Said:
Tadaoo Lots of discussion about these two machines. For what it's worth, my experience with an FFX5 has been quite good and I enjoy what I'm able to make with it. A friend has an X3 and has expressed that the steam arm is just too short, otherwise she uses it alot and likes it. Another couple I know recently went to an X1 (good deal on Ebay) after their Gaggia died. To be fair, they only use Illy pods, but that's all they used with their Gaggia, too. Bonne chance!
thanks acoustic, clingstone and 49 for your views on FF... very instructing
Gaggia seems like a more serious brand when it comes to manual espresso makers because of their history and the obvious quality of the specs. It seems that gaggia machines is more a manual machine that can use pods when FF looks more than a pod machine that can use ground coffee. As I need both (not everyone in the house understands the pleasure of adding complexity, time and messiness in the art of making coffee...), i was considering both options.
I have read somewhere that some entry level manual machines cannot take pods and than it might crack the joints if the machine is not designed for pods...
Size is also in the equation. The Gaggia are rather bulky and those machines are not easy to move around... i forsee long negotiation with my wife on timesharing of the kitchencounter space... a plus for the FF X3
Pricewise, the Gaggia Espresso seems to be THE deal...
acoustic Senior Member Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 7 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Oct 25, 2006, 11:38am Subject: Re: francis francis vs gaggia
Hi All,
To clarify a few points I made. The FF is a beautiful machine and I would guess, with the exception of it being short on steam, that when fixed would make an ok shot. Not a great one but ok.
The problem I have is with FF USA! They won't stand behind the product and tell me it's going to cost nearly the price of a Rancilio Silvia to fix my low temp issue. This is just ridiculous! Espresso machines are only as good as the company backing them because if you read the forums most FF machines have issues and if FF won't own up to the issues then DON'T buy one. FF even changed the original design of the boiler on the X1 because the original was so poorly designed. Did FF own up to this flaw and did anyone get their boiler replaced? NO! Eventually you WILL have an issue with a FF machine and will need to send it back. A $300.00 price quote to fix a low temp issue is as pathetic as the original $799.00 price tag on this "Paris Hilton" all show no go machine.
FF needs to spend as much time designing inside of the machine, where it REALLY counts, as they do on the outside but they don't. Even my wife, who loves the look of our bright red X1, says it must go because she likes quality espresso more than having a cool looking machine...
For the first nine months I thought my poor quality shots were my own fault until I tried my friends Starbucks Barista machine and now I know it's my FF X1 and not me. If you want good quality espresso buy the Gaggia, Rancilio, Expobar or even the Starbuck Barista. If you drive a Hummer, never go off road & need a show piece to support your wilting manhood the FF might be the right machine for you. If you want good espresso buy something else! Plese don't say I never warned you about Francis Francis...
tadaoo Senior Member Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 24 Location: paris, france Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: gaggia classic Grinder: coming up
Posted Fri Nov 17, 2006, 3:55pm Subject: Re: francis francis vs gaggia
hi again
I'd like to post an update on my espresso machine quest, and ask around about the systems of portafilters for e.s.e. pods, and their use with ground coffee.
I have finally bought a brand new Francis!Francis! X3 Trio on ebay, for a handsome price, after a long "market study" on american and french forums.
As you remember, my initial choice was a combo Gaggia Espresso + MDF, as per everybody's advices, and so i tried to proceed with ordering the stuff. As Gaggia is not distributed in France, I had to go through italians e-shops whose prices were unbeatable. Unfortunately they were not able to organize delivery outside of their country, which makes you wonder what the EU parlement is for, damn it!. Comparatively, the UK sites prizes were almost double...
Top-of-the-range Gaggia were a little out of budget, so I decided on the FFX3, rather well rated on coffeegeek, although FF is usually poorly supported on the Net... but as mentioned before it has a much better proportion for my Parisian microcuisine than a combo-tanks gaggia or rancilio + grinder, that would have quickly become grounds for divorce...
Some told me nespresso is even more adapted to my nano-kitchen, but a I adhere neither with their global marketing strategies nor with the lock-in system, and I am not a big fan of their coffees.
Illy, even if they are a little snobs and very expensive, have a more interesting way of doing things, more talent in what they do, and their coffee is much better (to my taste).
Unfortunately for me new the FF, known as Trio, have a "improved" portafilter system for e.s.e. pods where you can select a lungo, normal, or a ristretto just by rotating the portafilter according to the marks shown on the surface of the group. (se pic)
The portafilter is chromed brass , but there is a black plastic element inside which swivels with the filter and which does not inspire confidence so that one is afraid to tighten it...
I have not found a single (objective) test online of this new system (which is also featured on the FFX6), pods being generally unwelcome in the espresso forums for the reasons that everyone knows.
Moreover, it would seem that it is impossible to use a ground coffee portafilter with this new system (in which case I withdraw some of the compliments on Illy), but I was not able to get a firm answer from anybody.
Illy France is not very sure, even if they market the X6 "exclusively for pods e.s.e."... the ebay seller of the machine which I have just bought ensures me that it can be adapted...
I have found FF portafilters for ground coffee on the Internet but I would like to be sure before I make another purchase .
If there are any users or "experts" of the system FF Trio, I would like to know if you could help me find answer to these questions...
In the meantime I will have to drink pods espressos until I can find a place with a kitchen that can fit at least a Rancilio Sylvia and a good grinder...
my apologies to be so longwinded only to discuss pods and thank you in advance for your reponses
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