Posted Wed Dec 20, 2006, 7:33pm Subject: Newbie with Ranchilio Sivlia/Rocky having impossible time
Hi!
I have Silvia for about 4 weeks and like many woman she can be a little rough to live with. I've never pulled a shot of espresso before Silvia but I know I wanted to start with a good machine and grinder. I started using Vivace beans and measured out everthing doing the dose, dist, tamp by the book. My shots were not too good and I hoped they would get better. After going through 1lb if the Vivace I used a local roast which I think might have been stale. I have since got some Black Cat roasted 12/15. I feel that I was making progress and the the bottom dropped out and now I get shots that start out looking dark and appealing and end looking thin, sour, slightly burned and nasty, some shots can turn your stomach. The machine is clean and the taste of clear water from the portafilter after cooled taste good. Before my purchased the unit I knew this was not going to be easy but at this time I don't what else to do . I've read almost every article on the web related to Silvia and espresso bacics. I feel that my dose/dist/tamp has a lot to do with my poor results. I live in Long Island NY and was hoping maybe someone could give me a hand and help me set up this machine so I can have more enjoyment from her. If anyone has info for this or a barista class local to me I would GREATLY appreciate this.
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006, 11:57am Subject: Re: Newbie with Ranchilio Sivlia/Rocky having impossible time
Jim,
I'm using the double basket with 16g of espresso. I have a doserless Rocky and I dose into a small tupperware bowl and weigh. I then put all grinds in the pf and evenly level all withthe straight handle of the included scoup. My shot volume is 2 oz. today I pulled two shots the first was 23 s from the time coffee started to appear. The second I measured differently and it was 28s from when I hit the switch. With the second it took 4s for coffee to appear and at times the stream dribbled. Both shots came into the cup tan and after about 5s they seperated like a guinness. The crema was not too bad. I'm using a small juice glass as I find that I don't get an even pour from left and right spouts to go into 2 one oz shot glasses. The shots are ok but have a taste that stays with you. I'm using black cat that was roasted 12/13 from what the package says. I started with Vivace Vita blend and though things were going better. I don't think the Black Cat is a fault. As for my procedure when pulling a shot I press the brew switch after the boiler light goes off. As for the warm up time 30-60 minutes. I run the water through the pf prior to loading. I've been reading about temp surfing and am not sure if pulling the shot as boiler light is going off is a good thing but as a newbie to the process I needed a starting point. Its easy to read and watch videos but practice doing it the right way will develop my best shot. Any info regarding procedure or shot temp is a help.
Dr_Doppio Senior Member Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Posts: 107 Location: Central CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Miss Silvia, La... Grinder: Rancilio Rocky, Macap M4... Vac Pot: No Drip: Capresso MT500/Bodum... Roaster: Not yet
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006, 12:53pm Subject: Re: Newbie with Ranchilio Sivlia/Rocky having impossible time
Hi Brian,
Welcome to Coffee Geek and to Silvia's World! ;-)
If you are hitting the brew switch immediately after the boiler light goes off, you are extracting the espresso at the maximum water temperature. This is way too hot and, all other things being equal, will result in just what you described - a very dark, oily first part of the extraction and a bitter taste to the shot.
There may be other variables that need tuning up, but over-extraction due to too hot water is one of the easiest problems to fix with Miss Silvia. You need to "temperature surf."
Now, you will read about "temp. surfing" and "reverse surfing," but, to keep it real concrete, try pulling your shot EITHER:
About 2 minutes after the light goes OFF,
OR
About 40 seconds after the light goes ON.
These both result in extraction temperatures within the ideal range and pretty good temperature stability during the extraction.
YMMV, according to the pressure setting of your Silvia. Try slight variations on the numbers above. You WILL find what works best for you, understanding "best" may vary somewhat also from blend to blend.
Hang in there. Your Silvia/Rocky team is capable of giving you really good espresso, once you have learned just a few tricks.
JGG Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 547 Location: Kentucky, US Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia Grinder: Mazzer Mini E (A), SJ; Rocky... Roaster: Hottop D w/PID; Thermometric...
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006, 2:29pm Subject: Re: Newbie with Ranchilio Sivlia/Rocky having impossible time
Brian -
You may classify yourself as a newbie, but your technique seems pretty good to me. I think you have most of the variables under control.
But as David pointed out, if you brew right after the light goes out, then the boiler temp is probably a little high (and it actually continues to go up after the light goes out).
Take a look at the red line on this graph to help you understand what is going on with your boiler temperature. For reference, the "light on" temperature corresponds pretty closely to the low points on the red line. The "light out" temperature is a little lower than the peak points.
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006, 8:00pm Subject: Re: Newbie with Ranchilio Sivlia/Rocky having impossible time
I pulled a few shots tonight starting 35 seconds after the boiler light came on and the results were better. The extraction time was 23 seconds from when the switch was hit I know that is a little fast and I will adjust the grind. At this time I will try to get down the consistancy and get another bag of Vivace Vita blend as I enjoyed it very much. After I ran out of it I have found that the black cat espresso might have a good name but I don't think the overall taste is for me. I guess along with the learning curve of espresso making you need to experiment with different espressos until you find what you like. Because it comes recommended or from a well known roaster doesn't mean its always for you. I will keep you posted with my progress.
Dr_Doppio Senior Member Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Posts: 107 Location: Central CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Miss Silvia, La... Grinder: Rancilio Rocky, Macap M4... Vac Pot: No Drip: Capresso MT500/Bodum... Roaster: Not yet
Posted Thu Dec 21, 2006, 10:33pm Subject: Re: Newbie with Ranchilio Sivlia/Rocky having impossible time
BrianD Said:
I pulled a few shots tonight starting 35 seconds after the boiler light came on and the results were better. The extraction time was 23 seconds from when the switch was hit I know that is a little fast and I will adjust the grind. At this time I will try to get down the consistancy and get another bag of Vivace Vita blend as I enjoyed it very much. After I ran out of it I have found that the black cat espresso might have a good name but I don't think the overall taste is for me. I guess along with the learning curve of espresso making you need to experiment with different espressos until you find what you like. Because it comes recommended or from a well known roaster doesn't mean its always for you. I will keep you posted with my progress.
It sounds like progress has been made. That's great!
If your experience is like mine, you will continue to refine your technique for a long time and end up wondering at how you used to struggle to get a decent shot. The learning curve is long with many breakthroughs to look forward to. I think the "intermittant reinforcement" provided by the all too occasional "god shot" is what makes this so addicting. It's not just the caffeine!
Do keep us posted, and do share your preferences as they emerge. There is a wealth of collective experience here. If you can define what you like, I bet some one can point you to the blends that deliver it best.
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