Posted Wed Dec 27, 2006, 4:08pm Subject: Grinder Manufacturers : Hello! Anyone is listening?!?
After reading on HB, CG and alt-coffee for 2 months and "shopping" for a quality grinder... Am I the only one who believe that Mazzer, Macap etc. are not listening? In the 400-800$ range all that I see is '50 design with some little new features. Do you expect us to be happy to pay 400-800$ for a device that still has the same'old design and flaws and having to tweak/mod it? Having your "holy" name on it doen't worth that much to me, I'm not shopping for a piece of Italian art! By design flaws I mean : Vertical setup, motor (heat) below grinding unit. Horizontal flat burr setup (conical make a little more sense for that setup but still). Ok guys time to re-think your design, give that old patent to the Chineses at least they will be able to put it on the market for 50$ (or less) in which case I wouldn't mind buying some "flaws"...
Let's look at a fairly good unit from a company that seems to listen to their customers. (that is what I get from lots of forum threads) The KA Proline (sugg. retail 299.99 but you can easily find it for 150.00) all you need now (listen KA) is a stepless knob and a good quality burr. And I'm pretty sure that won't rise the price that much. Well at least not even close to what the Italian connection is asking for their line of grinders!
My point is I don't believe Mazzer, Macap and alike are offering grinders that are worth 400-800$. Don't get me wrong they do a good job but hey the technology/knowledge for better grinder is out there (Versalab). Make it afordable and listen to your customer.
By the way I'm still shopping for a good grinder, any deal out there? ;-)
nic
Enjoy your coffees with Respect :^) =============== BGA0531 SCAA, "Golden Cup Certification" Technician
randomperson Senior Member Joined: 16 Apr 2006 Posts: 312 Location: Boston and Vermont Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Valentina Levetta, Gaggia... Grinder: Mazzer Mini E, Rocky... Drip: Capresso MT500, Braun...
Posted Wed Dec 27, 2006, 4:20pm Subject: Re: Grinder Manufacturers : Hello! Anyone is listening?!?
Have you actually tried any of the grinders you are trashing? The Mazzer Mini E, for example, is an example of brilliant design. It's pricey, yes, but its ergonomics and grind quality are outstanding. I find it hard to imagine that it could be improved upon. No tweaks necessary -- it is just wonderful for home use. At least leave the Mini E off your bash list.
You should get off the fence and actually buy and use one of these fine brands before you bash them -- then after you've got one in your hands, bash away! Then you'd be entitled! ;-)
Yirga Senior Member Joined: 3 Feb 2006 Posts: 659 Location: Big Bend Expertise: Just starting
Posted Wed Dec 27, 2006, 4:40pm Subject: Re: Grinder Manufacturers : Hello! Anyone is listening?!?
O.K., you guys! I want a good clean fight! Keep it moving! No rabbit punches! No low blows! When I say, "break," I want you to, "push off " and break, clean! You got me? O.K. let's have a good fight! Get it on!
Posted Wed Dec 27, 2006, 7:46pm Subject: Re: Grinder Manufacturers : Hello! Anyone is listening?!?
randomperson Said:
You should get off the fence and actually buy and use one of these fine brands before you bash them -- then after you've got one in your hands, bash away! Then you'd be entitled! ;-)
:-) I new I would get Mazzer and Macap owner angry with that post :-) I really do hope you're happy with a 800$ grinder!! Yes the Mini E has very good reviews all over the place. And I would probably be the first to be happy with a 800$ grinder.
What I wrote is a my opinion from 2 months of reading on grinder (CG, HB and alt-coffee) and I don't "trash" any grinder but manufacturers who get on the market grinders and sell them with the "brand" name. That's it. Although the Mini E is a "new" grinder with nice hi-tech features underneat it is still the same grinder that has been "design" in the '60 maybe '70. So to me it shouldn't worth 800$ all they did is put a nice, good, unique "doserless funnel". Again I'm not saying it is not good I've never tried it ;-) But I've read complain about it! I know there will always be poeple complaining about everything but common' a 800$ home grinder I think we shouldn't be able to find threads that talk about mod or "it would have been better with" about such a grinder. Another way to explain my point of view is : It's ok to mod/PID/etc a Sylvia it is an entry level with lot of room for improvements. Now if you buy a 2000-3000$ espresso machine I would expect to be great and not having to mod. or change a part for a better one unless you are a "gearhead". BUT unfortunately in our hobby (quest for the perfect Espresso) it is not like that (I've read forum on high-end machine talking about changing that part right out of the box because it's not good enough!). Why all that? Humm the market is too small, not enough player (manufacturers) or ??? But the fact is still there: I think we have to pay too much for what we get... It would be very surprising to see a chinese copy of the Mini E price wise ;-)
Please all the others MM owners I'm not bashing/trashing any grinder in particular. keep it cool ;-)
Enjoy your coffees with Respect :^) =============== BGA0531 SCAA, "Golden Cup Certification" Technician
Ok you got me with "disingenuous" I had to go look in my dictio (english is not my mother-tongue...) Well I was and I'm still sincere about what I wrote... I think I should have not written any "brand name" in my post. So annyone who feel offended, read it without brand name. ;-) My point is still there, it's more related to the "espresso related product" Manufacturers. There hope I am less disingenuous ;-)
You need to get out more! Stop reading, buy one of these horribly old-fashioned grinders, and move on with your espresso life. Seriously. Form opinions based on actual use.
BTW I'm sure you'd hate most $2,000 E61 espresso machines too, since they're based on a group design patent from the 60's.
Why do I fall for these silly trolls, why???!!! I need to get out more!
Posted Wed Dec 27, 2006, 9:33pm Subject: Re: Grinder Manufacturers : Hello! Anyone is listening?!?
randomperson Said:
You need to get out more! Stop reading, buy one of these horribly old-fashioned grinders, and move on with your espresso life. Seriously. Form opinions based on actual use.
BTW I'm sure you'd hate most $2,000 E61 espresso machines too, since they're based on a group design patent from the 60's.
Why do I fall for these silly trolls, why???!!! I need to get out more!
LOL! You're home too much like the rest of us roasting beans, grinding with our high priced but well built/designed/if ain't broken don't fix it grinders that thankfully are not made in China and pulling excellent espresso from our high priced but well worth it 1961 patented tried, tested and true thermosyphoned brewgrouped, double or heat exchanging prosumer machines while looking back at the times we too thought great espresso could be had at a discount but finding out that you get what you pay for and good equipment costs but pays for itself and the dividend is right here in the flecked, glowing, red brown crema rich cup of espresso we're sipping on.
Posted Wed Dec 27, 2006, 10:46pm Subject: Re: Grinder Manufacturers : Hello! Anyone is listening?!?
mrgnomer Said:
LOL! You're home too much like the rest of us roasting beans, grinding with our high priced but well built/designed/if ain't broken don't fix it grinders that thankfully are not made in China and pulling excellent espresso from our high priced but well worth it 1961 patented tried, tested and true thermosyphoned brewgrouped, double or heat exchanging prosumer machines while looking back at the times we too thought great espresso could be had at a discount but finding out that you get what you pay for and good equipment costs but pays for itself and the dividend is right here in the flecked, glowing, red brown crema rich cup of espresso we're sipping on.
THANK YOU mrgnomer. That is a constructive reply ;-) Within hours I know now that this business "espresso" manufacturer will not listen to such a small market... unfortunately for us it might take a while before it change, let's go out there and preach for "perfect espresso". Come'on guys we need followers ;-)
Nothing personnal randomperson but what are those millions reviews/comments for if I cannot base an opinion on it.
nic
Enjoy your coffees with Respect :^) =============== BGA0531 SCAA, "Golden Cup Certification" Technician
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