galtman Senior Member Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Los Angeles, CA Expertise: Professional
Espresso: La Pavoni Professional,... Grinder: Cunill El Tranquilo
Posted Wed Apr 4, 2007, 3:47pm Subject: Brasilia Machines--let a new sales rep know what is up.
First off: I've started work this week for Rosito Bisani in Los Angeles, the US importer of Brasilia espresso machines. My working title is Coffee Sales Rep, but I will also be the liaison between the company and the specialty coffee and coffeegeek worlds. I'm a through-and-through coffeegeek. I own a Nuova Simonelli Oscar, a La Pavoni Professional and a Cunill El Tranquilo grinder. I only use freshly roasted beans. I throw away half the shots I pull. Everything you'd expect from a coffeegeek. They hired me here based on my passion and knowledge of espresso (and to a lesser extent, coffee in general), so I think that should stand for something.
I want to know, from fellow coffeegeeks out there, general opinions about Brasilia machines. In my 3 years as a barista, I've never worked on one. They seem to be underexposed in the States. The innards, as I've explored with our tech guy here, seem topnotch. I'm trying to figure out whether the underexposure is due to the machine or the marketing.
I'm especially keen on hearing about temperature stability.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Wed Apr 4, 2007, 4:25pm Subject: Re: Brasilia Machines--let a new sales rep know what is up.
I would say the reputation of Brasilia and other C.M.A. machines are that they are reliable workhorses, but not race horses -- the trucks of the espresso world, not the Ferraris.
Brasilia recently entered a machine for the WBC that apparently was extremely impressive but not used due to some fine print type violations of the qualifacation rules. A machine like that, if it hit the market, could change some minds.
galtman Senior Member Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Los Angeles, CA Expertise: Professional
Espresso: La Pavoni Professional,... Grinder: Cunill El Tranquilo
Posted Thu Apr 5, 2007, 8:40am Subject: Re: Brasilia Machines--let a new sales rep know what is up.
Thanks Jim for the info... I did hear about that WBC controversy on the Home Barista forum. Right now I'm trying to make contact with Michael Teahan, who also used to work for Rosito Bisani.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Thu Apr 5, 2007, 10:37am Subject: Re: Brasilia Machines--let a new sales rep know what is up.
CMA is the parent company of Astoria, Brasilia, Wega, and Rossi grinders. They also own Ulka now, and some other parts manufacturers. Various members of the founder's, Nello Dal Tio's, family own other espresso companies. I think it's the world's biggest espresso machine company by a long way.
Posted Thu Apr 5, 2007, 11:33am Subject: Re: Brasilia Machines--let a new sales rep know what is up.
The company I work for as an espresso machine technician has a policy of three brands that we will not work on. Brasilia is one of them because once they start going, they keep unraveling. I haven't worked on one since I've been here.
I used them for a couple of years in coffee shops, and the steam wands broke from metal fatigue, steam pressure fell very low when busy, and I was very excited when the company switched to LaCimbali. As a workhorse, the Cimbali is significantly sturdier, can take much more punishment, and requires much less maintanence.
I have never heard that CMA was the parent company (a recent aquisition?). If that is true then CMA goes out of their way to distance themselves from the brand. Risto is on the other side of the continent from the CMA warehouse (in North America), which has both Astoria and Wega machines in stock, but has never had a Brasilia in the building. But then, you never know whom is in bed with whom in business, do you?
The Brasilias just don't have the reputation for durability and serviceability that other "workhorse" machines do. Just from my experience anyway.
Psyd Senior Member Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 1,468 Location: MON AZ Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astoria Argenta SAE II,... Grinder: Rio and Astoria (Mazzer)...
Posted Thu Apr 5, 2007, 1:28pm Subject: Re: Brasilia Machines--let a new sales rep know what is up.
PeaberryPicker Said:
I have never heard that CMA was the parent company (a recent aquisition?). If that is true then CMA goes out of their way to distance themselves from the brand.
And Brasilia could benefit from the association, if they are, indeed, not the workhorse they'd like to be thought as. My Astoria is an absolute brick compared to some of the other machines I've been exposed to.
alsterling Senior Member Joined: 28 Dec 2005 Posts: 682 Location: Dana Point, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale S1 (Had Expo) Grinder: Macap M4 & Gaggia MDF Vac Pot: Not yet... Drip: Capresso MT-500 & Melitta... Roaster: Hottop Digital
Posted Sat Apr 7, 2007, 12:03pm Subject: Re: Brasilia Machines--let a new sales rep know what is up.
galtman Said:
..........I want to know, from fellow coffeegeeks out there, general opinions about Brasilia machines. In my 3 years as a barista, I've never worked on one. They seem to be underexposed in the States. The innards, as I've explored with our tech guy here, seem topnotch. I'm trying to figure out whether the underexposure is due to the machine or the marketing. I'm especially keen on hearing about temperature stability. Thanks! Greg Altman
Greg, nice to meet you through the forum. Maybe I'll see you at your office or in the field? My immediate response to why any espresso machine is #1 or last in use at retailer's counters would be that it's marketing and sales related. Given the right program, I also believe that any product can be sold. It has to wrapped up to "look the part" that you want it to be. The more I'm in contact with specialty coffee retailers, the more I'm of the opinion that any of the higher end units can be servicable, if maintaned both by employees and the visiting technician; meaning "tune-ups."
My experience has been that current owners, and especially new owners, if proded a bit, will share both the good and bad. As was already mentioned, it appears that there is a questionable perception regarding the brand? On my last trip to Brasil, I noticed a goodly number of Brasilia machines. A major bakery and coffee franchise in Brasil (and at all the airports) uses this machine at their locations. I always wonder whether the machines are modified for either a specific geographical market or major client. One just doesn't know, and that can make it into a totally different machine. That goes beyond simply re-badging the units.
You may already be contacting owners at commercial locations in L.A. and Orange County. I know David, the owner of Javatini's in Seal Beach and Lake Forest, purchased a Brasilia for his Lake Forest location, which just recently opened. I always want to know what influenced the buying decision. For most specialty coffee retailers, I don't believe buying decisions are made for the right reasons, temp. stability, repeatability of extractions, etc. The majority of resellers seem to "fall into their equipment", many times driven by "false bargains." You're aware that many newcomers to specialty coffee, when they plunk their money down, are easily swayed by "free machines" if they buy the coffee. That has so much less to do with the machines, and more to do with inexperience on the shop owner's part.
I'm firmly of the opinion that the grinders, espresso machines and related coffee equipment items are the least of one's investment. Anyone who has a business background would love to think they could buy the absolute best key machine group (meaning the espresso machine and grinder) for under $20k. That's a huge bargain, but yet I see and hear of people driving to Indio, just to pick up a beat up HX machine because it's way cheap. It's a shame it takes so long for some people to understand the importance the "overall buying value" of their business equipment. I rarely see discussions, understandably, on this forum, addressing refridgeration, shop remodeling to conform to county codes, etc. These issues can easily run 10 times the cost of a La Marzocco 4 group and beyond, but yet when I talk to machine dealers, they relate the same sad stories about the "bargain hunters" who would rather pick up a used espresso machine with unknow issues, than a new machine with warranty and highly available and competent repair techs.
I'd say you ought to chat with David and others like him. If I had to sell machines, I'd be all about programs. I'd try to put together maintenance packages with both the new and used units. I believe that if you look at the dollar potential for both the highly skilled coffee shop owners vs those that see coffee as a necessary beverage, nothing else, you might worry less about your machine's credibility and more about how to market to the greater potential pool of customers? (Just my opinion..........?)
NickT Senior Member Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 10 Location: Boston Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Aug 27, 2012, 8:06am Subject: Re: Brasilia Machines--let a new sales rep know what is up.
Hey, I've just discovered the Brasilia Mini Classic at WLL. Don't seem to be any CG reviews, so I'm wondering if anyone on the boards has any experience with this machine.
Posted Mon Aug 27, 2012, 8:34am Subject: Re: Brasilia Machines--let a new sales rep know what is up.
NickT Said:
Hey, I've just discovered the Brasilia Mini Classic at WLL. Don't seem to be any CG reviews, so I'm wondering if anyone on the boards has any experience with this machine.
Nick, until/unless Gino Rossi/Brasilia comes out of bankruptcy, I'd be leery of buying any Brasilia machine, as parts, especially electronics and other proprietary parts, may be increasingly hard to come by.
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