bkazez Senior Member Joined: 10 Jan 2004 Posts: 76 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Tea Grinder: Mazzer Mini Drip: Not since visiting Italy!
Posted Sun Jan 11, 2004, 8:12am Subject: Espresso equipment for $450?
What is the best combination of espresso equipment I can get for $450 or under?
I did some research and decided against the Rancilio Silvia, since it appears that it requires a grinder. Then the Starbucks Barista looked great until I read somewhere that every espresso requires a grinder. Is this true? Is there a grinder that is cheap enough that I could get it along with the Barista or a better machine?
I'm not sure if it's possible to get a complete espresso setup for $450, but I guess I'm about to find out!
Posted Sun Jan 11, 2004, 12:03pm Subject: Re: Espresso equipment for $450?
I would suggest getting a burr grinder and Barista for starters. Any (just about) machine does not REQUIRE a grinder to operate, but getting pre ground espresso roast beans defeats making your own. Once the beans are ground, they lose their freshness, favor, etc very very fast. A Bodum Antigua Grinder is around 60.00 and a good starter grinder IMO. A Solis SL70 Espresso seems like a good starter as well for around 350.00. I have a Barista and had no problems with it as well. I have both the Bodum and Barista and they were my starter ones to learn and play on. Have had both of them since '97 and as long as you keep them both clean and decalcified they will run until you have to have the bigger better badder models!
JR Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2003 Posts: 1,807 Location: Germantown, TN (right next to Elvistown) Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Old Coffee Gaggia (x2.5) Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo Drip: the late Melitta Clarity... Roaster: GG/UFO
Posted Sun Jan 11, 2004, 12:24pm Subject: Re: Espresso equipment for $450?
bkazez Said:
What is the best combination of espresso equipment I can get for $450 or under?
I did some research and decided against the Rancilio Silvia, since it appears that it requires a grinder. Then the Starbucks Barista looked great until I read somewhere that every espresso requires a grinder. Is this true? Is there a grinder that is cheap enough that I could get it along with the Barista or a better machine?
I'm not sure if it's possible to get a complete espresso setup for $450, but I guess I'm about to find out!
I hope you will take a little time to browse this forum before you buy. Lots of the members here were in your position not too long ago. Most will agree that if you're on a tight budget, you need to start with a good grinder and a moderately priced machine (some of us have learned this by getting the wrong grinder). I wish I'd bought a Gaggia MDF rather than a Solis Maestro.
In your price range, you can get a Gaggia Espresso and Gaggia MDF (the combo, with "bar" is $419 at Wholelattelove). This beats anyting Starbucks has to offer at any price.
Posted Sun Jan 11, 2004, 12:50pm Subject: Re: Espresso equipment for $450?
There are lots of good starter machines in that price range for new Baristas. Not sure what there is so much HATE for Starbucks machines on this forum. For $199 and a 2 year warrenty, it is good machine. Mine has not failed me once in the last 20 months. Does it make espresso as good as my New La Spaziale S1..No, but for the last 2 years my wife has refused to get espresso out, just because what I made at home was so much better. From a Starbucks barista, none the less. In fact, I have had the S1 for a few days so far, trying to get use to the new machine, and all that it can do( which well excedes my skill level), and the current wife comments is..."This is not much better than from the Starbucks machine"...I am sure it is currently operator skills, and not machine defiency. The recommended grouping above from WLL is probably as good as well. I have NO experience with this set up. But for me, The Starbucks Barista and a Rocky Doserless, is another good combo for that kind of money. Happy Hunting. In fact, sometimes I think the Hunt is more exciting than the catch.
bkazez Senior Member Joined: 10 Jan 2004 Posts: 76 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Tea Grinder: Mazzer Mini Drip: Not since visiting Italy!
Posted Sun Jan 11, 2004, 1:44pm Subject: Re: Espresso equipment for $450?
Thanks for your help! I'm taking a look at the Gaggia Espresso, which is starting to look like a cheap but good substitute for the Barista.
As far as grinder: it looks like I could get one and still stay in my price range (especially with Whole Latte Love's deal), but I'm still wondering if I'll be able to get acceptable espresso without one. I've got a Bialetti Moka that I use for morning caffe latte, and I've been using Illy coffee that was carried back from Italy last January, then ground several months ago, and stored on a kitchen shelve for the rest of the time. Frankly, the coffee is acceptable: not bitter or sour or anything else remotely unpleasant, but obviously lacking in body and crema, simply due to the machine I'm using.
Is it possible that I wouldn't need a grinder after all, even with a pump machine operating at three times the pressure of my current Moka?
Posted Sun Jan 11, 2004, 2:02pm Subject: Re: Espresso equipment for $450?
Rhinoevans Said:
There are lots of good starter machines in that price range for new Baristas. Not sure what there is so much HATE for Starbucks machines on this forum.
Hi Mike... There are a few here who seem to hate Starbucks, perhaps viewing them as an evil conglomerate where coffee is just another flavor among many choices who don't care about customers and put out inferior shots etc. etc. etc.
Perhaps some of that affects people in their choices and recommendations of machines...but not everybody. The reason most recommend other machines than the Solis (or whomever is currently manufacturing the machines badged by Starbucks as theirs)...is they are better machines.
I think more recommendations in this group are based on either:
I wish I had bought this instead of that...
I bought this because...
If I had it to do again...
Right now in the $400-500 price range, the Gaggia machines seem a really good choice because of professional sized PF assembly, water dispenser, and ability to pull great shots. (very important considerations). They even offer 3-way valves in machines in the $350.00 category.
In addition, the Gaggia MDF and the Cunill Tranquillo grinders are superior for espresso grinding to any other readily available - and similarly priced - grinders.
While people can 'make do' with other machines, why would I opt to 'just make do' when I can buy pro-grade gear for the same money?
So I am fairly certain many here do not hate Starbucks...and secretly go there and enjoy themselves, and still make better espresso at home without complaining about Starbucks.
Posted Sun Jan 11, 2004, 2:10pm Subject: Re: Espresso equipment for $450?
bkazez Said:
Thanks for your help! I'm taking a look at the Gaggia Espresso, which is starting to look like a cheap but good substitute for the Barista.
As far as grinder: it looks like I could get one and still stay in my price range (especially with Whole Latte Love's deal), but I'm still wondering if I'll be able to get acceptable espresso without one. I've got a Bialetti Moka that I use for morning caffe latte, and I've been using Illy coffee that was carried back from Italy last January, then ground several months ago, and stored on a kitchen shelve for the rest of the time. Frankly, the coffee is acceptable: not bitter or sour or anything else remotely unpleasant, but obviously lacking in body and crema, simply due to the machine I'm using.
Is it possible that I wouldn't need a grinder after all, even with a pump machine operating at three times the pressure of my current Moka?
I'm sure that if you compared the year-old Illy to freshly roasted, freshly ground coffee in your moka, you'd be able to tell the difference. The process of making espresso would accentuate the difference even more. You've stated that your budget is $450. JR pointed out a Gaggia Espresso/MDF combo on WLL that is within your price range that would be a great starting place. 1st Line, Chris'Coffee and others have similar combos as well. I was all set to buy that same combo when I came across a used Silvia/Rocky combo that I bought instead, but the Gaggia combo would have served me very well. Take a look at the reviews here and at WLL and you'll see that the Gaggia line performs well, especially for the money. The Barista seems to be a solid machine as well, but most folks who buy one eventrually end up replacing the pressurized portafilter with a non-pressurized version, which adds anoth $40 or so to the total cost of the machine.
Don't rush into your decision. Read through the forum and you'll see a consistent theme... There are a lot of folks out there who want to save a few bucks by using pre-ground, and virtually all of them end up buying a decent grinder because they find that they can't achieve consistent results without one.
Good luck, and stop back and let us know what you decide and how things are going. The help of the folks on this forum was invaluable in getting me up to speed (well... up to walking instead of crawling, at least. I've still got a long way to go!).
Elankat Senior Member Joined: 8 Jan 2004 Posts: 35 Location: Midwest Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Miss Sylvia Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo Drip: Bodum press pot & 1 cup pour... Roaster: Heat gun/dog bowl
Posted Sun Jan 11, 2004, 5:26pm Subject: Re: Espresso equipment for $450?
Have you thought about looking into "next-to-new"/refurbished equipment from various dealers? They are usually backed by warranty. What about used equipment? If you are willing to consider used or slightly used, there are even more choices.
For example, you can get a refurbished Solis SL70 for about $275 if you call Baratza. Refurbished Solis Maestros are $75 from them. That leaves enough money to buy your accessories like better baskets, thermometer, pitcher, etc.... or even a roaster. Many of the retailers have similar deals on refurbished stuff. If you are willing to purchased used equipment (not backed by warranty), then you can probably find even better deals.
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