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HELP:  my HX machine is alternating between steam and water out of the brew head
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > HELP:  my HX...  
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CraigA
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CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,272
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007, 10:32am
Subject: Re: HELP:
 

TimEggers Said:

???

Posted November 7, 2007 link

Yes, said in my above post where I quoted you Tim., that you said:"I don't know of a way to test the pump, sounds like its time just to get a new one."

I posted about the water debit test after you said that & included the Ulka vibe pump flow chart.

You then said after that post:"It may just be a faulty pump whatever the cause calling the vendor should have been move #1. I don't think tests are needed at this point, as obviously something is wrong, whatever the issue is your vendor should be able to help repair/replace."


All I said was "See my post above please!" & you put the question marks???

All I was doing was trying to keep attention on a simple test that can be done to ascertain the condition of the pump.. The water debit test.., jess...{:-/
No problem.

 
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caeffe
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 271
Location: socal
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar & Pavoni...
Grinder: Mazzer Major / PeDe Moka
Vac Pot: eSantos / Yama tabletop
Drip: Krups Moka Brew / Bodum Kona
Roaster: I-Roast 1
Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007, 4:55pm
Subject: Re: HELP:
 

CraigA Said:

Yes there is a water debit test.
Hit the brew switch with no portafilter attached & measure the amount of water collected in 10 seconds. For Silvia anything at or over 90ml in that timeframe is acceptable. With my old OEM OPV 11.6bar/170psi I used to get 120 - 125 ml.
With the new adjustable OPV & properly regulated brew pressure in my case 9 bar/132 - 135psi, my water debit is 110ml.

Posted November 7, 2007 link

thx Craig & Eggers....

I will check the flow.  Question - does it matter if the machine is all warmed up or not?  my thinking is it shouldn't at least in a macro quick & dirty sense, ie all i want to check is if the pump is healthy...  I don't want to wait 20 minutes when i get home from work to check.

Also, this was purchased from a non-espresso machine dealer (Smart & Final - mini costco) so I'm not expecting any support.  i may be able to get them to exchange but i have feeling they are out of them by now.  They had a 2 week return policy and its way beyond 2 weeks.
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,272
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007, 5:08pm
Subject: Re: HELP:
 

caeffe Said:

I will check the flow.  Question - does it matter if the machine is all warmed up or not?  my thinking is it shouldn't at least in a macro quick & dirty sense, ie all i want to check is if the pump is healthy...  I don't want to wait 20 minutes when i get home from work to check.

Posted November 7, 2007 link

I wouldn't think so..

 
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caeffe
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 271
Location: socal
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar & Pavoni...
Grinder: Mazzer Major / PeDe Moka
Vac Pot: eSantos / Yama tabletop
Drip: Krups Moka Brew / Bodum Kona
Roaster: I-Roast 1
Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007, 7:43pm
Subject: Re: HELP:
 

ok, i got ~100 ml in 20 seconds ......

i think i'll have to take the bottom of to check if there are any air leaks into the tubing .....

i wish i didn't give my brother my estro vapore
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,272
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007, 7:57pm
Subject: Re: HELP:
 

caeffe Said:

ok, i got ~100 ml in 20 seconds ......

Posted November 7, 2007 link

That's half the pumps rated output, not that good.., it's supposed to be as I said 90 - 100ml in 10 seconds.
I've found some additional info saying that output can be from 65ml - 100, with 90 being optimal.

From the revered Andy Schecter Click Here (groups.google.com)

Click Here (groups.google.com)

i think i'll have to take the bottom of to check if there are any air leaks into the tubing .....

Yes I'd say so. I'd check the pumps output both hot & cold. Also check the pumps input tube to vibe pump housing connection for possible foreign matter clogging the input & effecting the pumps specified water output/throughput.

 
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caeffe
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 271
Location: socal
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar & Pavoni...
Grinder: Mazzer Major / PeDe Moka
Vac Pot: eSantos / Yama tabletop
Drip: Krups Moka Brew / Bodum Kona
Roaster: I-Roast 1
Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007, 9:11pm
Subject: Re: HELP:
 

decided to check it after warm up and also check pressure.

after warm up i get inconsistent results, one time i got 150 ml in 10 seconds, another barely 50 ml in 10 seconds - coincides with the steam alternating with water.

i decided to see if the pump has the oopmh by putting the gauge and seeing if it can get to pressure.  it took some time, i didn't measure the time but it ended up getting to full pressure - 200 psig ( i had closed the opv thinking that maybe i was getting a leak through it and since that was what i tweaked last)

i readjusted the opv to ~150.

i guess i can get espresso shots since it will get up to pressure but i think it would take more than 30 seconds ....

maybe the pump is shot or i have something blocking the pump output....
i've been delaying opening up the bottom to check the pump.

do i need to drain the boiler? should i have to?
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TimEggers
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TimEggers
Joined: 3 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,946
Location: Tiskilwa, Illinois
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: QM Anita, Cappuccino Amore
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Mazzer SJ
Vac Pot: Antique McKee, Santos
Drip: Pour Over, Bodum Presses
Roaster: RK Drum
Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007, 10:09pm
Subject: Re: HELP:
 

CraigA Said:

Yes, said in my above post where I quoted you Tim., that you said:"I don't know of a way to test the pump, sounds like its time just to get a new one."

I posted about the water debit test after you said that & included the Ulka vibe pump flow chart.

You then said after that post:"It may just be a faulty pump whatever the cause calling the vendor should have been move #1. I don't think tests are needed at this point, as obviously something is wrong, whatever the issue is your vendor should be able to help repair/replace."


All I said was "See my post above please!" & you put the question marks???

All I was doing was trying to keep attention on a simple test that can be done to ascertain the condition of the pump.. The water debit test.., jess...{:-/
No problem.

Posted November 7, 2007 link

Apologies if I stuck my nose in where it doesn't belong.

 
Tim Eggers
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caeffe
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 271
Location: socal
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar & Pavoni...
Grinder: Mazzer Major / PeDe Moka
Vac Pot: eSantos / Yama tabletop
Drip: Krups Moka Brew / Bodum Kona
Roaster: I-Roast 1
Posted Wed Nov 7, 2007, 10:39pm
Subject: Re: HELP:
 

TimEggers Said:

Apologies if I stuck my nose in where it doesn't belong.

Posted November 7, 2007 link

????

:-)

BTW, i don't think any apologies are needed ......
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,272
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2007, 7:32am
Subject: Re: HELP:
 

TimEggers Said:

Apologies if I stuck my nose in where it doesn't belong.

Posted November 7, 2007 link

No appologies needed Tim. ????? Just kiddin'! {:-)

 
http://twitter.com/CoffeegeekCraig
http://www.facebook.com/craig.andrews.169
http://plus.google.com/u/0/100690035958728038289/posts/p/pub

Excellent coffee doesn't just happen!
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caeffe
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 271
Location: socal
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: NS Oscar & Pavoni...
Grinder: Mazzer Major / PeDe Moka
Vac Pot: eSantos / Yama tabletop
Drip: Krups Moka Brew / Bodum Kona
Roaster: I-Roast 1
Posted Sat Nov 10, 2007, 11:04am
Subject: Re: HELP:
 

I went ahead and took the bottom plate off.  I saw a similar post on HB about adjusting the brew pressure and there was a picture of the pump there.   It appears that the line from the reservoir to the pump might have gotten kinked.  I rearranged some the pump a bit and retried again.  
Measure pump output when cold - ~100 ml in 10 seconds.

I went ahead and said what the heck - proof is in the taste .... thinking eventually it gets up to pressure, maybe it'll work...

Ground some Lux (Scottsdale) beans, tamped, loaded.

It took longer than usual before something came out but visually, after ~ 30 seconds it started 'blonding'

Tasted it - hey, that tastes pretty good.

Maybe the problem was the kinked line but when i turn the pump on without the portafilter, i still get intermittent periods of no water or steam, but i've made 3 shots now and they taste much better than before.

Could i just be seeing the "mechanical" pre-infusion style of this machine?  Before I adjusted the brew pressure, i would get a constant stream of water rather than alternating periods of steam, water .....

BTW, the pump in this one is CEME not an ULKA.   I read somewhere that ULKA's are a better pump, why I don't know.  Maybe this is how NS got the price point when they put in the SIRAI P-stats.
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