Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 4:20pm Subject: This can't possibly be RUBBER--trying to change group gasket
Sorry for all the questions today; it's my day off and finally getting to do some work on my cripples. I appreciate all the help.
Received my replacement group gaskets for my ECM Botticelli today. Now I've done this once before, so this should be easy, right? Umm, no. Removing the other gasket took some chipping and digging around, but I don't remember it being this bad, it was old, old, old. Today's gasket has been in awhile, but didn't seem to be the right diameter--much leaking around the portafilter--and I've not used the machine much at all since that debacle. Should be easy, right?
It's like scraping against metal, complete with the sound effects. The little flat head screw driver head didn't get into at all. A pointed steak knife tip seems to take tiny chips away, but no without much jabbing. Too much force/scraping to possible be a good idea. I don't remember this at all.
Should I forge ahead and keep at it? I'm afraid of damaging something. Is this OK to do? Or am I completely off base and trying to remove something that isn't it all?
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 4:54pm Subject: Re: This can't possibly be RUBBER--trying to change group gasket
If you're trying to remove it, that can be a tough job if it doesn't want to budge which they usually don't after being exposed to heat and gunk. You can try putting a screw into it and see if you can pull it out that way, but it could still come out in pieces and need some cleanup after most of it is gone.
Edit - if you try a screw, I'd suggest something with a coarse thread such as a coarse drywall screw.
frcn Senior Member Joined: 23 Dec 2001 Posts: 631 Location: Yankee Hill Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Super Grinder: Mazzer Kony, 2Baratzas Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory... Drip: Bunn A10 mod for temperature... Roaster: 4Hottops, 1HWP, 1 Gourmet
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 4:57pm Subject: Re: This can't possibly be RUBBER--trying to change group gasket
Try driving a drywall screw into it. Once it threads into it, remove it and file the tip flat. Then screw it in all the way until it hits the brewhead and either pull on it with a pliers or just keep screwing it in to see if it will pull the gasket out. If not, just keep doing it at the same area until it splits the gasket at that point. Then it can be prized out.
SJM Senior Member Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,379 Location: CA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 5:12pm Subject: Re: This can't possibly be RUBBER--trying to change group gasket
In fact, I recommend using 2 - 3 screws (sheet metal screws are good) and pulling a bit on each of them until the @#$#%&*ing thing finally gives up and comes out.
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 5:21pm Subject: Re: This can't possibly be RUBBER--trying to change group gasket
Amazing what rubber can turn into with time, pressure and heat, huh? I had procrastinated on replacing the Livia's gasket (actually, I had no idea you were supposed to replace it before it fails, which it had once on my old Estro Profi and Starbucks actually walked me painlessly through the process). Let me tell you, first thing I tried were screws. Ha! Eventually, I had to turn the Livia on its side, and stab the gasket with an ice pick, steak knife and meat mallet; and by the time I was done, there was so much black hard rubber dust that the kitchen and I looked like we'd been attacked by a berserk chimney sweep in a 'roid rage.
Once you do manage to replace the gasket, I guarantee you'll never go longer than 6 months between changes.
Sandy www.sandyandina.com ------------------- Life's too short to drink lousy coffee, play crummy guitars and write with ballpoint pens.
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 5:44pm Subject: Re: This can't possibly be RUBBER--trying to change group gasket
That is one of the reasons I could never part with my Cimbali - they give complete access to the gasket by just removing a few bolts and the big chrome group housing. It's incredibly easy, but I know when I need to do my Gaggia it won't be that way...
mhoy Senior Member Joined: 4 Feb 2008 Posts: 172 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 Grinder: Baratza Vario Roaster: HotTop KN-8828D
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 6:14pm Subject: Re: This can't possibly be RUBBER--trying to change group gasket
Rufusag: How long has it been since you changed it last? How many hours a day does the machine stay hot?
I picked up a used Anita that is a bit over 2 years old. I wonder if I should change the group gasket??? Other than replacing it every XX often, how do you know when it's time?
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 6:38pm Subject: Re: This can't possibly be RUBBER--trying to change group gasket
OMG. This is insane. Twenty minutes of hard labor with screws. screw drivers, steak knives...for this little progress. Has anyone ever taken power tools to these things? I swear I'm tempted to get my drill. I tried a screw, and this nasty gasket just giggled.
As you said, I swear to all the espresso gods above that I'll never let it go long again. How long betweem changes to prevent this atrocity? Once a month? Every three months? Every day?
Does gasket "quality" matter, or is there even such thing? I swear the first one I changed was nowhere near this bad, replaced it with this one that was advertised as a generic e61 to fit most machines. It didn't fit quite right, like I said, so I haven't even used the machine much since the change. I couldn't seem to find a replacement that said ECM specifically, much less Botticelli I (as a opposed to the II that is available now). Inquired and was answered by Andrew Meo himself: gaskets that fit the giotto will fit the Botticelli I. So I just spent a small fortune to ship an honest-to-god 100% ECM brand (says it right on the rubber).
Now, these new gaskets have a bit of different look and feel than the other ones. Slightly more pliable and slicker rubber with more of a sheen to it. Do you think this (generic vs brand quality) makes any difference in preventing this horrible, nasty gasket phenomenon?
A photo of my progress (or non-progress). Use your magnifying glass to see the tiny chip out of it on the right-hand side:
wideasleep1 Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 1,018 Location: Sausalito,Ca Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: VBMDoubleDomo Grinder: Mahlkoenig K30 Vario Vac Pot: nope Drip: Bodum Press Roaster: IR1 and 2,SC/TO,Behmor
Posted Mon Mar 17, 2008, 9:04pm Subject: Re: This can't possibly be RUBBER--trying to change group gasket
This doesn't really help rufusag much now, but I had recently replaced my gasket after 2 years (tooooo long!..do it annually at least!), and like rufusag, screws simply tore out of the hardened rubber, yielding chunks. This turned out to be a good thing, as I also had a dental tool I use as an o-ring puller, and was able to wedge this behind the gasket once a large chunk had been removed. Using the tools curve, I leveraged against the brass grouphead, and was able to pry it off from behind the gasket. It still left a crust on the brass that had to be chiseled with a flatblade screwdriver, but it finished good as new. The dental pick tool is very stout, made in pakistan, and was a dollar at the hardware store 'impulse purchase' bins by the register...I recommend 'picking' one up! :p
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