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Espresso: Espresso Machines
Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Steam or pump...

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cyanide
Senior Member

Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 2
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Feb 18, 2004, 2:20pm Subject: Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

Hi, I'm not a big coffee fanatic, but I am interested in trying espresso at home. I'm not looking to sink a lot of money into it... just getting a decent grinder with a cheap espresso machine. Any advice? i've seen pump machines pretty cheap, but steam ones even cheaper. Has anyone here actually used a steam one, what is the quality like? Can you get some (any?) machines that do both espresso and coffee? Any information and opinions are appreciated. All I know are the very basics....

ljguitar
Senior Member

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 2,787
Location: Cheyenne
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Pulsar
Grinder: Mazzer SuperJolly• Baratza
Drip: Bunn
Roaster: Behmor•iRoast2•Variacs

Posted Wed Feb 18, 2004, 4:11pm Subject: Re: Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

cyanide Said: --- Hi, I'm not a big coffee fanatic, but I am interested in trying espresso at home. I'm not looking to sink a lot of money into it... just getting a decent grinder with a cheap espresso machine. --- Any advice? Posted February 18, 2004 link Hi... You asked for advice. You will need $250-400 to spend so you can make decent espresso at home. Yes there are inexpensive pump machines which make ok espresso. A grinder suitable to espresso grinding costs at least $150.00. My advice is find a great local espresso bar and try espresso there. Then if you like it, look into equipment, delve into the archives here and grow. L a r r Y

L a r r Y J <°)))><

micman75
Senior Member

Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 72
Location: Sydney, Australia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Imat/Nemox Lux
Roaster: Chief Popcorn Popper

Posted Wed Feb 18, 2004, 4:55pm Subject: Re: Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

Steam "toys" don't give the necessary 9 bar minimum pressure you need for espresso. You might as well get a plunger if you are gonna get the steam toys. the general consensus here is to get a good grinder eg. MDF, and a reasonable espresso machine if you have a budget. the carezza is a well priced gaggia.

dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Wed Feb 18, 2004, 5:03pm Subject: Re: Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

If you go the steam route you can be sure that you'll eventually decide you don't like espresso. You'd be better off buying a used pump machine than a steam machine.

CoupePlus
Senior Member

Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 289
Location: Little Rock
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Pulser/Classic/EPC8
Grinder: Mini/SJ/Virtuoso
Vac Pot: Yes
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: GC/Behmor

Posted Wed Feb 18, 2004, 5:19pm Subject: Re: Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

Forget the steam toys. Lowest cost option for good espresso and steaming ability--Maestro Plus grinder and a Gaggia Carezza. The Maestro Plus will grind regular coffee just fine, but the Gaggia will not do "regular" coffee. It does do a fine Americano, however. Luck, Larry

cyanide
Senior Member

Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 2
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Feb 18, 2004, 6:59pm Subject: Re: Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

Well, thanks for the responses. I do beer brewing as a hobby, so I understand your perspectives of "get better equipment, or you'll be scared off". However, I can't justify spending the amount of money most home espresso makers do. It really comes down to cheap machine or no machine. I'm looking for something to wake me up, give my taste buds a whirl and keep me warm in the mornings. As opposed to something to sit down with at the end of the day and analyze the flavor nuances. For that, I understand the investment. Not sure if I made it clear... I drink espresso and I do enjoy it very much, however, I would much rather make it at home than go to a coffee shop every morning... I've seen some pump machines running for about $50-$60(US) and steam machines running even lower. I'm sure most of you are well read on the requirements and conditions needed for the perfect espresso, but has anyone here tried a drink made from a 'toy' machine? As for the grinder, I'm looking for something cheap for now. I honestly can't imagine an expensive one making that big of a difference to me. Any tips?

ziopliukas
Senior Member

Joined: 2 Jan 2004
Posts: 19
Location: Chicago area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Rocky (doserless)

Posted Wed Feb 18, 2004, 7:35pm Subject: Re: Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

Steam machines make OK espresso if you haven't had the real thing. Once you've used a pump machine to make home espresso you'll never look back. I wasted a fair amount of time with steam toys, as they're called around here, but it wasn't until I decided to spring for a pump-driven Starbucks Barista that I started making drinkable espresso. More recently Silvia and Rocky, a nontrivial investment, have been worth every penny.

ljguitar
Senior Member

Posted Wed Feb 18, 2004, 7:45pm Subject: Re: Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

cyanide Said: --- I'm looking for something to wake me up, give my taste buds a whirl and keep me warm in the mornings. As opposed to something to sit down with at the end of the day and analyze the flavor nuances. For that, I understand the investment. Not sure if I made it clear... I drink espresso and I do enjoy it very much, however, I would much rather make it at home than go to a coffee shop every morning... Posted February 18, 2004 link If you go to the shop every morning, how much do you spend per day? Figure that out over a few months, and you might find a perspective on whether to even spend money on a machine. You could just make coffee in the mornings and get the warmth and give your taste buds a treat. I could stop and pick up espresso, cappuccino, latte or Americano on the way to work as quickly as I could make it at home and then clean our machine and area up. Having timed our process, it takes about 10 minutes to grind, pull shots, and clean up every time I build even an Americano. I do mosey through the process so it could be done quicker...probably in 7 or 8 minutes. But, many coffee shops are faster than that. The reasons I make ours at home are: - Flavor - Variety - Enjoyment I don't roast and brew to save money...if we ever break even, it would be a surprise! L a r r Y

L a r r Y J <°)))><

MochaMe
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Apr 2003
Posts: 144
Location: Green Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: SMP
Drip: Love the press!

Posted Wed Feb 18, 2004, 8:02pm Subject: Re: Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

How about a used Barista, Solis or Nespresso ... something that uses pods? You could always go with pre-ground espresso from a local roaster you like ... but you'll probably find you're buying it pretty often. Williams Sonoma has a Nespresso (I think) pod-only espresso maker for under $100. From one beginner to another ... I honestly believe you'll appreciate the difference a grinder can make in the very first sip. If you're serious about wanting espresso at home, my VHO would be to find something gently used on eBay. You'd probably get more bean for your buck there than new. This group is serious about their espresso. They're probably thinking "what is MochaMe saying ... buy pods?" I'd liken their view of pods and pre-ground (or assuming you won't appreciate how a grinder can affect it) to comparing Stroh's or Old Milwaukee to your home brew. I'm thinkin' that all the guru-speak on the web won't convince you like a taste test will. Seeing is believing! I have been reading here and learning myself for several months. I love my French press (and yes, even going from Gloria Jean's blade grinder to a Braun burr made a WORLD of difference), but I still haven't made the espresso investment yet. I know that a better grinder will come first. Too much to consider and too much at stake. I can't afford what I know I really want and I can't justify buying less only to upgrade in a few months. Since I also can't find anything wrong with my French press brew, I am trying to be content! Will you let us know what you decide? Other's still taking it all in (like myself) rather enjoy seeing where people end up as they absorb all this wonderful info. Andrea :) p.s. I'm told that Starbucks has a $100 off sale on Barista's starting tomorrow ... and their grinder is being discounted to $79?

Andrea in WI

micman75
Senior Member

Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 72
Location: Sydney, Australia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Imat/Nemox Lux
Roaster: Chief Popcorn Popper

Posted Wed Feb 18, 2004, 9:04pm Subject: Re: Steam or pump machines? need something cheap and a decent grinder...

I was given a Krups steam toy some time ago. The coffee is drinkable, but NOT espresso. You just can't get the same concentrations as a pump machine. We used a few times then sold it. The coffee it made was on par with plunger and drip, but took a lot more work and clean up. I have since bought a gaggia classic and have never looked back. My next step is to buy a grinder... Buy a pump machine, even a used one, over a new steam toy.

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