Posted Tue Jul 15, 2008, 7:35pm Subject: Re: Some purchasing advice for someone that has done the homework, please?
Get a double boiler espresso machine. You will have unlimited steam to practice your latte art and won't have to upgrade later on. With HX machines you will still have to temperature surf. (a bit) You just as well buy my Silvia.
amwreck Senior Member Joined: 6 Mar 2006 Posts: 32 Location: Jacksonville Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: MELITTA COMPACT 15 BAR PUMP... Grinder: Capresso Burr Grinder #551 Vac Pot: Bodum Drip: Mr. Coffee Roaster: None
Posted Tue Jul 15, 2008, 8:16pm Subject: Re: Some purchasing advice for someone that has done the homework, please?
But doesn't the double boiler come at a significant increase in cost and space? Plus, I don't think there are too many 120v options out there. And is 120v really enough to power a double boiler anyways?
Two other dual boiler machines you might want to consider are the La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II that is available from Chris today and a new Izzo Alex dual boiler model that Chris has started testing. The dual boiler Vibiemme Domobar machines that came to market a couple of months ago had undersized steam boilers and the initial reports from users were not very good. That one needs a little more work in the engineering department before I would consider it.
You won't be unhappy with one of the Quickmill HX models. I had an Anita for two years and was completely satisfied with the performance and ability of that machine. I recently sold the Anita to make room for a dual boiler that I hope to have delivered here before the end of the summer. In the meantime I am using my five year old Silvia that continues to crank out tasty dopios and ristrettos plus the occasional milk drink for family members who prefer lattes and capas.
amwreck Senior Member Joined: 6 Mar 2006 Posts: 32 Location: Jacksonville Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: MELITTA COMPACT 15 BAR PUMP... Grinder: Capresso Burr Grinder #551 Vac Pot: Bodum Drip: Mr. Coffee Roaster: None
Posted Wed Jul 16, 2008, 8:05am Subject: Re: Some purchasing advice for someone that has done the homework, please?
One of the things that attracts me to the Andreja is the option to plumb it in. That is something that I would consider to be a big bonus. Does anyone know of a plumb line modification for the Brewtus? Also, does anyone know what the pain level is for refilling the Brewtus (or the Andreja for that matter) if you choose to use the cup warmer? Is it simple to lift that top off or is it something that is going to turn into a task every time I need to refill?
JVBorella Senior Member Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 488 Location: northeastern CT. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LaSpaziale Vivaldi S1V2 Grinder: Mazzer SJ,KA Pro,Zassenhaus... Vac Pot: Press Pots/Finum Filters Drip: No Thanks Roaster: Before Long
Posted Wed Jul 16, 2008, 11:36am Subject: Re: Some purchasing advice for someone that has done the homework, please?
amwreck Said:
But doesn't the double boiler come at a significant increase in cost and space? Plus, I don't think there are too many 120v options out there. And is 120v really enough to power a double boiler anyways?
My Vivaldi S1V2 takes up no more space then the Vetrano I owned briefly & it runs just fine on a 120v 20a circuit. You can also run it on a 15A circuit but you won't get the full benefit of being able to run both boilers at the same time.
JVBorella Senior Member Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 488 Location: northeastern CT. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LaSpaziale Vivaldi S1V2 Grinder: Mazzer SJ,KA Pro,Zassenhaus... Vac Pot: Press Pots/Finum Filters Drip: No Thanks Roaster: Before Long
Posted Wed Jul 16, 2008, 11:40am Subject: Re: Some purchasing advice for someone that has done the homework, please?
amwreck Said:
One of the things that attracts me to the Andreja is the option to plumb it in. That is something that I would consider to be a big bonus. Does anyone know of a plumb line modification for the Brewtus? Also, does anyone know what the pain level is for refilling the Brewtus (or the Andreja for that matter) if you choose to use the cup warmer? Is it simple to lift that top off or is it something that is going to turn into a task every time I need to refill?
If you want to plumb it in & can afford to spend a little more the Vivaldi S1V2 would be an excellent choice. Compare the features it offers to the competition before you decide. http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/vivaldi_2
This is a machine you would be happy with for many, many years.
wideasleep1 Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 581 Location: Sausalito,Ca Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: VBMDoubleDomo Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: nope Drip: Bodum Press Roaster: IR1 and 2,SC/TO,Behmor
Posted Wed Jul 16, 2008, 11:41am Subject: Re: Some purchasing advice for someone that has done the homework, please?
onthego Said:
The dual boiler Vibiemme Domobar machines that came to market a couple of months ago had undersized steam boilers and the initial reports from users were not very good. That one needs a little more work in the engineering department before I would consider it.
VBM has fixed the issue, and new shipments have a larger steam boiler. Otherwise, it's build quality and performance are on par with the DomobarSuper, both of these machines should be under serious consideration by OP.
Posted Wed Jul 16, 2008, 5:21pm Subject: Re: Some purchasing advice for someone that has done the homework, please?
rotor Said:
Get a double boiler espresso machine. You will have unlimited steam to practice your latte art and won't have to upgrade later on. With HX machines you will still have to temperature surf. (a bit) You just as well buy my Silvia.
You don't temperature surf an HX you do a cooling flush to bring the HX temp down after a long idle. Compared to temperature surfing a thermostat controlled single boiler (like a Silvia) with a large dead band HX flushing is very simple.
There's plenty of HX vs double boiler posts to read. And, if you want to compare steam potential, the average HX has a 1.5L boiler. Plenty of steam power. Go with an Astra Gourmet or Elektra A3 and you've got 3L+. Enough steam to paint your walls with milk.
As well HX flushing can be controlled to target temps. Since the HX line rebounds fairly quickly with most models you can target/change brew temps on the fly. As well you can play with your HX rebound to change the extraction temperature profile.
Double boilers vs. single boiler HX machines is getting to be a tired debate, IMHO. Aside from whether bullseyeing a brew temp really makes any noticable difference in extraction quality there's really is no evidence that a double boiler outperforms an HX by virtue of being able to roughly hold a selected temp in a dedicated brew boiler. There's pros and cons with either design. My only experience has been with an HX but with all the reading and research I've been doing I don't think a double boiler offers any greater espresso potential than an HX. In many ways I feel a lever actuated e61 HX offers more advantages.
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