Posted Thu Aug 28, 2008, 10:35am Subject: Re: New GS/3 owners thread
You don't really see the scale, but the machine gives you some hints. I had the problem with the back-flow of boiler water into the reservoir. But I think you can even hear the level of scale. The machine gets louder when heating up, it's a very low frequency tone while heating up. After descaling my GS/3 is noticeably more silent than before.
michelmia Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 22 Location: Ottawa (Ontario) Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco GS/3 Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano
Posted Thu Aug 28, 2008, 1:53pm Subject: Re: New GS/3 owners thread
Malte,
Can you share with the other GS3 owners the exact proceedure you undertook to descale the machine. Mine is plumbed in right now. what step by step did you do. I have owned my machine for 8 months now and have yet to descale it. It is on my list of to-do things for this weekend. Your feedback would be much appreciated.
Posted Thu Aug 28, 2008, 11:28pm Subject: Re: New GS/3 owners thread
Yes sure,
I am using a mixture of hot water (near the boiling point, attention) and biological citric acid - one part acid and three parts hot water. If your machine is plumbed in, you have to find a way to let the pump suck the liquid out of an appropriate container - the procon is able to do that. Switch on the GS/3 and fill-up both boilers with the liquid using hot water and espresso button. Let sufficient water flow through and stop whenever you think, that there is enough descaling liquid in both boilers. Switch off the Marzocco, you won't need the heating element due to the hot water you have used. Descaling works def. better when using hot water (near boiling point) water than cold one.
Let it work for approx. 1 to 1.5hrs. After this I would suggest to empty the steam boiler first (the GS/3 is still switched off). On the left side of the GS/3 (please also consult the pictures I've uploaded to imageloop) is an access, which can be used to empty the steam-boiler. I have used a flexible, thin silicone tube to empty it. Caution: after unscrew this access, some water will come out - use a barista towl !!! And pay attention while opening this screw, there maybe some pressure in the steam boiler. To avoid any accidents, open the steam valve before (use the steam knob).
The brew-boiler is a different case: I won't suggest to open the Cap on the goose neck, which is possible but not recommended - it may leak after closing it. So a 'non-invasive' method is to flush the brew boiler with a lot of fresh water (approx. 10 x the whole reservoir) to ensure that most of the descale liquid has left. The remaining part isn't critical due to the biological acid, I use. Before flushing the brew-boiler you have to switch on the GS/3. In parallel I would also flush the steam-boiler using the hot water button.
I think this procedure is a basic one and it could be improved, but it works well.
michelmia Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 22 Location: Ottawa (Ontario) Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco GS/3 Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano
Posted Fri Aug 29, 2008, 8:17am Subject: Re: New GS/3 owners thread
thanks Malte that is very helpful. I will try it out this weekend.
I am still unsure on how to make the biological acid. What type of acid do I buy? (muriatic acid?)
I do have some packages of Dezcal Activated Scale Remover form Urmex at home. Would that work the same?
Also to flush out the brew-boiler I beleive another option is to unscrew the expansion valve that drips out into the tray. I think the manual refers to that but I would have to check on that. I have not tried to do this though. When I have to flush the brew-boiler I have simply passed lots of water trough it in the pas.
Posted Fri Aug 29, 2008, 8:25am Subject: Re: New GS/3 owners thread
Absolutely right, the expansion valve could work - never thought of that option.
The descaling acid just contains (biological) citric acid and preservatives, never tried it with Urnex. Is Urnex 100% biological? I would have some doubts to use a chemical descaling liquid, some (very little) parts will remain anyway. Just ask for some citric acid on a biological basis - should be available.
And don't forget to mix it with hot water, that improves the result.
michelmia Senior Member Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 22 Location: Ottawa (Ontario) Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco GS/3 Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano
Posted Fri Aug 29, 2008, 8:41am Subject: Re: New GS/3 owners thread
don't know if Urmex is 100% biological. It is 100% biodegradable though. It is a powder you mix with hot water.
So I will look for some citric acid (biological based) and try that out as it seems to do the trick for you. Where did you buy this, from your espresso dealer? I am in Canada not too sure where to find that. I will in any event make some inquiries.
Cheers and have a nice weekend. Monday is a national holiday in Canada so it will be a long weekend for us and it looks like the weather will cooperate!
DonSt Senior Member Joined: 1 Nov 2007 Posts: 76 Location: Sacramento, CA
Espresso: La Marzocco GS/3 Grinder: Vario, Super Jolly Roaster: Temple Coffee
Posted Fri Aug 29, 2008, 6:54pm Subject: Re: New GS/3 owners thread
michelmia Said:
don't know if Urmex is 100% biological. It is 100% biodegradable though. It is a powder you mix with hot water.
So I will look for some citric acid (biological based) and try that out as it seems to do the trick for you. Where did you buy this, from your espresso dealer? I am in Canada not too sure where to find that. I will in any event make some inquiries.
Cheers and have a nice weekend. Monday is a national holiday in Canada so it will be a long weekend for us and it looks like the weather will cooperate!
Michel, Randy Glass of the "FRCN Espresso...." web site recommends plain citric acid that you can get at a homebrewing supply. You can check out his write up here: http://home.surewest.net/frcn/Coffee/HowToDescale.html
I am assuming that this is "biological" citric acid that Malte is talking about. If someone can verify this assumption, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
Posted Sat Aug 30, 2008, 3:34am Subject: Re: New GS/3 owners thread
Dear Gentlemans
I am so far very careful with the descalingprocess of my old one. Since there are consider among chemical industry professionals here in Basel/Switzerland, that descaling with citric acid could be contra-productiv. "Because: While precipitation can itself form for decalcifying with a Entkalker on citric acid base, which can clog the fine lines and valves of your machine. Additionally a unsolvable layer can form by citric acid, which seals the lime lining." After that its like a glass lining and nothing works anymore. That was a big theme around here (Warranty times).
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