DanHarvey Junior Member Joined: 3 Sep 2008 Posts: 6 Location: Stockton, CA/Ft Bonifacio, Philippines Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni P3V2, Bezzera BZ02 Grinder: Rocky, MiniPro II
Posted Wed Sep 3, 2008, 12:27am Subject: My new Bezzera BZ02 giving me headaches! HELP!
I recently accquired a very lightly used BZ02SDE, and since acquisition my shots have all been bitter. Searching on the forums, i have found that this has been common for most owners. Going by the recommendations of the threads i found, i have adjusted my pstat to around 1 bar (previously was cycling from ~.6 to .8 bar) and have been giving it a decent flush before shots. Also, per recomendations on dosing, i have been measuring out 14g exactly because supposedly the machine is pretty anal regarding dosing and tamping. Even after all this, changing grind and tamp pressures, my shots have been more or less bitter. And if i dose to level off, i sometimes get shower imprints or worse, the pucks stick to the grouphead. I even tried different beans. What am i missing? I have the stock PF and double basket, and have not messed with the OPV. Im going to Vanelis tomorrow to grab a naked PF and hopefully a LM double as i heard these can help.
With my old 2 group HX Pavoni, i was able to pull beautiful tasty doubles with my tamp and grind, but the bz02 is pissing me off! Hopefully someone can give me some insight....
DanHarvey Junior Member Joined: 3 Sep 2008 Posts: 6 Location: Stockton, CA/Ft Bonifacio, Philippines Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni P3V2, Bezzera BZ02 Grinder: Rocky, MiniPro II
Posted Wed Sep 3, 2008, 9:54pm Subject: Re: My new Bezzera BZ02 giving me headaches! HELP!
Ok so i more or less solved my problems...ill sum this all up to help future BZ02 owners from the same frustration and near need to sell the thing.
-My pressurestat was off Stock setting is around 1.2 Bar. My machine was first set to a max of .8 Bar, and after all my tweaking i ended up setting it to hit 1.0 Bar Max as my best setting. -My OPV was set wayyyyyy too high After some inital reading from other cg members just about everyone mentioned their opv was too high. Instead of buying a premade pf pressure gauge, I went to Lowe's and purchased a water pressure gauge, a brass bleed valve, and fittings to screw onto the spout. Total cost was about $26. The stock pf has a small hole near the locking flanges so i found a very small screw that would almost fit,and wrapped it in teflon and stuck it in from the inside. I did the pressure measurments without the basket in place. During my first measurements, the pressure hit almost 200PSI/13.7 Bar! That really explained my bitter shots and the grounds being forced through the basket. To gain access to the OPV You have to unscrew the two bottom water reservoir mounts and move it aside to get access to the OPV valve. I loosened the whole top fitting, then moved the set screw down until i got around 130psi/9 bar. I had it initally higher but after a few times i found this to be the best setting.
So after these two tweaks, and grind and tamp adjustments, i was able to pull some very good shots. Some also mentioned getting the LM baskets, but after these tweaks i didnt feel that i needed it anymore. I did however purchase a naked PF from vanelis, which was only $49 and came with a triple basket! The naked helped determine my tamp and grind, and couldnt have found the perfect match without it. I never had these issues with my old pavoni, but now that i have everything dialed in im very happy, and love watching the naked.
TroyR Senior Member Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 404 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: bezzera BZ02s Grinder: mazzer rio normale, bezzera... Vac Pot: bodum santos Drip: french press Roaster: i-roast 2
Posted Thu Sep 4, 2008, 3:31pm Subject: Re: My new Bezzera BZ02 giving me headaches! HELP!
Hi Dan, yes my OPV was set really high initially also. Glad you got it figured out. Regarding the baskets I have been having fantastic luck with a larger basket (18g Ascaso/Synesso) and keeping the dose at 14g. I find the additional pressure ramp time and the extra headspace volume results in an evenly extracted shot almost every time (I was battling donut extractions previously). I am quite happy with my BZ02 even though I just had to remove and clean my vacuum breaker valve again.
Posted Thu Sep 4, 2008, 4:40pm Subject: Re: My new Bezzera BZ02 giving me headaches! HELP!
Hey Dan,
I'm glad you got the kinks worked out! I have a pasquini livia 90 and I've heard that the internals of our machines are basically the same. Anyone know if Livias also usually need an OPV adjustment?
DanHarvey Junior Member Joined: 3 Sep 2008 Posts: 6 Location: Stockton, CA/Ft Bonifacio, Philippines Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni P3V2, Bezzera BZ02 Grinder: Rocky, MiniPro II
Posted Thu Sep 4, 2008, 11:43pm Subject: Re: My new Bezzera BZ02 giving me headaches! HELP!
I guess i spoke a little too soon. After i was able to pull shot after shot consistantly, i turned off the machine for the night and started it back up the next morning. After wasting almost 1/4lb of beans, i gave up. I kept getting bitter shots again. I checked pressure, that was right on. Im figuring it must be due to temp or my amount of coffee. looking at the shot through the naked pf, everything looks good. Ill try measuring out 14g exactly, tamping accordingly, and pull a few shots. If that doesnt work i guess ill have to devise some sort of temp device.
In regards to the livia, i too have heard the internals are essentially the same. If you can pull consistant, or atleast drinkable shots, then i would leave it alone. The only reason why i started modding my machine was because regardless of what i did, i just could not get a drinkable shot.
Posted Fri Sep 5, 2008, 4:43am Subject: Re: My new Bezzera BZ02 giving me headaches! HELP!
Cool, probably good advice (if it ain't broke...).
What I've found works best for me and my livia, with regards to temp control, is the "flush and go" method as opposed to the flush and wait method advocated for use with most HX (especially e61) machines. I've just started doing this a few weeks ago, but I'm already happy with the results. A cg member, JonR, gave me lots of feedback, but I can give you the basics.
Basically, I remove the basket from the pf, click the pf back into the machine, then fill the basket with grounds. Then I WDT, tamp, etc. Next I flush water until about 9 seconds after the "water dance" stops on my group-head (I'm still getting the timing down, but 9 seconds has worked a couple times for me). Then I remove the pf, put the basket in place (hopefully you've got a ridgeless or you can remove the wire from your pf), click and go at a casual pace.
If you're like me and take a while tamping and prepping your grounds in the basket, then I think this is a good way to go because otherwise you may be giving your machine too long to rebound.
DanHarvey Junior Member Joined: 3 Sep 2008 Posts: 6 Location: Stockton, CA/Ft Bonifacio, Philippines Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni P3V2, Bezzera BZ02 Grinder: Rocky, MiniPro II
Posted Mon Sep 8, 2008, 5:56pm Subject: Re: My new Bezzera BZ02 giving me headaches! HELP!
Can anyone else give any more suggestions while using this machine...im still having a hard time getting consistant results..with most shots being bitter. A few nights ago, after i initally tweaked it i was able to get consistant shots, but not of lately. I double checked pressure, at around 9-10 bar, and im considering lowering it. Maybe i should try grinding coarser to relieve pressure? Also has anyone had a problem with too much water filling the drip tray due to excess pressure runoff from the opv?
maxcr Senior Member Joined: 6 Jul 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Costa Rica Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Bezzera BZ02s Grinder: Macap M4 Stepped
Posted Fri Sep 26, 2008, 2:13pm Subject: Re: My new Bezzera BZ02 giving me headaches! HELP!
I have owned the BZ02 for a while now, eventhough my version has no gauge, and I donīt have any means of measuring pressure, I was having the same problems that you have mentioned: bitter shots every time; so I figured too much pressure!
My advice
First. Very fresh (not dark roast) coffee, this provides a good crema and best results. Second. I did lower the OPV (turned the nut about one full turn from the factory setting). Third. Try this... grind finer, tamp very lightly... this is the best solution I have found.
DanHarvey Junior Member Joined: 3 Sep 2008 Posts: 6 Location: Stockton, CA/Ft Bonifacio, Philippines Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni P3V2, Bezzera BZ02 Grinder: Rocky, MiniPro II
Posted Fri Sep 26, 2008, 5:15pm Subject: Re: My new Bezzera BZ02 giving me headaches! HELP!
I feel that i have the situation pretty much under control now. I found one of the biggest issues was finding the right grind, too coarse it would be to fast, too fine and i would get bitter shots or timing issues. This irritated me the most as i went through like a pound of beans in the process but now i know.
The only annoying issue i have now is with the OPV. I adjusted it to a max of 10 Bar. At this setting i can pull shots to my satisfaction, however due to the lowered spring pressure im getting excessive bypass flow thus filling my drip tray too quickly. So i will try to raise the pressure again to find the right balance between pressure and the bypass flow.
TroyR Senior Member Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 404 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: bezzera BZ02s Grinder: mazzer rio normale, bezzera... Vac Pot: bodum santos Drip: french press Roaster: i-roast 2
Posted Sat Sep 27, 2008, 8:36am Subject: Re: My new Bezzera BZ02 giving me headaches! HELP!
My OPV vents back to the water tank. If you have enough flexible tubing it can't hurt to make yours do the same. Then only the three way will vent into the tray.
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