Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
LavAzza Espresso Machines
Awesome capsule espresso machines. Perfect for home, office and restaurant applications.
www.espressozone.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Pressure setting...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 4 last page next page
Author Messages
daktarz
Senior Member
daktarz
Joined: 3 Jan 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Bay Area, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Rituale
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Drip: umm French Press?
Roaster: Does  an outdoor smoker...
Posted Tue Mar 2, 2004, 6:13pm
Subject: Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
 

When I got my Rituale back from Chris' Coffee I noticed that the pressure had been set so that it went to 11 bar and sometimes even a touch higher during a pull. This is at variance with all I've read vis a vis the proper pressure. Before tweaking it myself I called and spoke with one of their techs (the guy who worked on my machine). What he told me was that he did indeed set it to 11 bar and explained that 9-10 bar is correct for rotary pumps but that vibratory pumps (such as the ones in the Isomacs) wouldn't pull consistent shots unless set higher. Hence the 11 bars. This is the first I've ever heard of such a thing, although it may well be that the 9-10 bar recommendation always has a rotary pump implicitly in mind. Anyone knowledgable about the subject care to weigh in?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
marcus
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 116
Location: NC
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale;Isomac...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini;Rancilio Rocky
Vac Pot: Bodum mini-eSantos
Drip: only at work
Roaster: BBQ drum, Heatgun
Posted Tue Mar 2, 2004, 7:11pm
Subject: Re: Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
 

My Relax is from Chris and I'm sure I've never seen 11 bar.  Maybe a bit over 10 when I'm backflushing.  If it helps pull more consistent shots and prevent the machine from choking on too fine a grind, I'm all for it...
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Jabes
Senior Member
Jabes
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Tea
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky/ Maestro Plus
Posted Tue Mar 2, 2004, 9:45pm
Subject: Re: Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
 

I'm in the exact same situation that you are in.  I got my Tea back from Chriscoffee about a month ago and noticed that my max pressure can be anywhere from 10-11.5 bar when pulling a shot or backflushing.  I've been able to get consistently good shots so I haven't messed with it yet, but still, I was a bit confused because I never noticed it being that high before. Glad to hear someone else has that problem.  On an unrelated(or maybe it is related) note, after pulling a shot or backflushing, I noticed that after flipping the lever down to stop the pump, the excess water is routed out the bottom of the E61(which is normal), BUT.... the pump pressure gauge still reads about 8-9 bars.  So I have to lift the level a second time far enough to relieve the rest of the pressure, but not enough to reactivate the pump. This second action takes the pump pressure down to about 2 bars.  I can't get it to settle lower than that.  Very strange.  I don't think it did that before either.  I was thinking about the mechanics of this, but I haven't quite put my finger on it.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
MrFollies
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Oct 2003
Posts: 98
Location: Amsterdam
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Isomac Tea
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Roaster: Prima Popper
Posted Wed Mar 3, 2004, 1:52am
Subject: Re: Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
 

Mine is still sitting at 11 bar.
Someone mentioned to me that, rather than drop the pressure, I should try and alter my grind and tamp.

The idea is that the coffee should produce the required resistance.  If it maxes out at 9, then you wont know for sure.

I am not sure if this is true or not, but it also goes along with what Chris' tech says..

Since I am getting good shots, but with strange timings (20 - 22 secs) I am going to see what I can do with the coffee before I resort to adjusting the machine.
back to top
 View Profile Contact via ICQ Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
Tennisfox
Senior Member
Tennisfox
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 49
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Tea
Grinder: Rocky DL
Drip: French Press & Krups
Posted Wed Mar 3, 2004, 8:24am
Subject: Re: Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
 

My Tea will max at about 10.5 but when the heater turns back on, the pressure drops to about 6.  I also notice that when grinding, the grinder will slow down when the boiler turns back on.  Is this normal, or do I not have enough power to feed my machine?

Lew
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
marrone
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 195
Location: Bakersfield
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Tea
Grinder: Pasquini, Spong
Roaster: Hot Top, Fresh Roast +
Posted Thu Mar 4, 2004, 10:04pm
Subject: Re: Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
 

Tennisfox Said:

My Tea will max at about 10.5 but when the heater turns back on, the pressure drops to about 6.  I also notice that when grinding, the grinder will slow down when the boiler turns back on.  Is this normal, or do I not have enough power to feed my machine?

Lew

Posted March 3, 2004 link

Sounds like a big voltage drop. This could happen if your meter/panel box is a considerable distance from the espresso equipment. Or any number of other things like old (loose) outlets, or extension cords.

Ted
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
jim_schulman
Senior Member
jim_schulman
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,772
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Fri Mar 5, 2004, 7:42am
Subject: Re: Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
 

daktarz Said:

When I got my Rituale back from Chris' Coffee I noticed that the pressure had been set so that it went to 11 bar and sometimes even a touch higher during a pull. This is at variance with all I've read vis a vis the proper pressure. Before tweaking it myself I called and spoke with one of their techs (the guy who worked on my machine). What he told me was that he did indeed set it to 11 bar and explained that 9-10 bar is correct for rotary pumps but that vibratory pumps (such as the ones in the Isomacs) wouldn't pull consistent shots unless set higher. Hence the 11 bars. This is the first I've ever heard of such a thing, although it may well be that the 9-10 bar recommendation always has a rotary pump implicitly in mind. Anyone knowledgable about the subject care to weigh in?

Posted March 2, 2004 link

There's a few threads on this:

First off, pressure in vibe pumps is inversely related to flow. At 2 ounces in 25 seconds you'll be around 9 bar in any case, even if the relief valve is set higher; but singles and ristrettos will pull higher.

  1. The technician saying that one knows the grind and tamp are correct if one is seeing 9 bar is spewing nonsense. What about singles, or ristrettos? The grind and tamp are right if the espresso tastes sweet and neither sour nor bitter; having to worry about pump pressure on top of this is ridiculous.

  2. Illy claims 11 bar is best for pods. The 11 bar setting on vibe pumps is also a factory tradition. So is marketing departments claiming 15, 18, or God knows how many bar for their espressos.  If you're pulling shots from some  flat, stale 90% Brazilian "genuine Italian" espresso blend; 11 bar may be great for all I know.

  3. But published taste tests consistently show that for fresh coffee 7 to 9 bar is preferred, since 11 bar overextracts and produces excess bitterness, especially in longer singles. My experience after several months of side by side tests confirms this. I prefer about 8.5 bar for my shots. This is almost identical to the pressure settings used at Intelligentsia and recommended by Schomer and Dr John (of Malabar Gold fame). The file is too large to attach, so you can find it here in the espresso research folder.

And as always, don't ask me, don't ask anyone else, taste it for yourself!

 
Jim Schulman
www.coffeecuppers.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
daktarz
Senior Member
daktarz
Joined: 3 Jan 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Bay Area, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Rituale
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Drip: umm French Press?
Roaster: Does  an outdoor smoker...
Posted Fri Mar 5, 2004, 4:06pm
Subject: Re: Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
 

another_jim Said:

There's a few threads on this:

First off, pressure in vibe pumps is inversely related to flow. At 2 ounces in 25 seconds you'll be around 9 bar in any case, even if the relief valve is set higher; but singles and ristrettos will pull higher.
And as always, don't ask me, don't ask anyone else, taste it for yourself!

Posted March 5, 2004 link

Did you mean that the way you wrote it? The pressure is inversely related to flow? If I increase the pressure I'll decrease the flow? Why would that be?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
HB
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Apr 2003
Posts: 2,913
Location: Cary, NC
Posted Fri Mar 5, 2004, 9:16pm
Subject: Re: Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
 

Here's a chart that Jim posted earlier that explains more clearly.  As you see, a vibe pump can generate higher pressure at lower flows and vice versa.  This chart is similar to the ones on the Ulka website, if you want to look up your particular model (probably an E5).  Rotary pumps don't have a curve that falls off so dramatically, hence one of the reasons why they are used in commercial environments.

-- Dan

HB: vibePumpOPV.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
www.home-barista.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
daktarz
Senior Member
daktarz
Joined: 3 Jan 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Bay Area, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Rituale
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Drip: umm French Press?
Roaster: Does  an outdoor smoker...
Posted Sat Mar 6, 2004, 9:37am
Subject: Re: Pressure setting on Isomacs. Anyone at 11 bar?
 

Ah - Very logical. I was making the mistake of thinking about pressure flow in a pipe. But the vib pump would clearly be working in a non-continuous manner. Takes a small amount of water and squashes it hard or takes a lot of water and squashes it less. Very nice.

Jim - Thanks  for the reply. I've taken your information to heart and have reduced the pressure. Results of the first day's trials are excellent. I've only pulled singles so far, although they're actually singles and a half based on coffee bean amount (if I actually use a "real" tablespoon of beans I get far too fast a flow in my Rituale, regardless of tamp/fineness). And, I don't know if it's due to the new batch of coffee or my having reduced the steam pressure to 1 bar, but my latte art is not just back to par but actually the best I've ever done. They actually pour like the videos now, something that hadn't happened in the past.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 4 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Pressure setting...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Cafe Espresso Machines
Video reviews, nationwide installation, leasing options... Nuova Simonelli, Rancilio, La Marzocco.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.462709188461)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+