protozoider Senior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 6 Location: FL Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Fri Oct 24, 2008, 10:57am Subject: Re: Breville 800ESXL, can it make a good shot?
I've spent so much time on this machine. We would all be better off if the low end machines that didn't work weren't around and the only option was expensive or nothing. I've read some bad stuff about this machine. Of course plenty of people like this machine but I doubt many of them actually drink espresso, but more like tons of milk with a shot so they don't even taste it. My shots out of the breville are black at first then brown but not creamy. With the non-pressurized it looks better but it doesn't taste good. I don't think it's you, just this machine.
I made a video of exactly what a shot looks like coming out of this machine with the pressurized filter. See if this is similar to yours. No matter the fineness of the grind, I get the same exact output. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixPWoEjE6lg
aliciaicila Senior Member Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 4 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Oct 24, 2008, 11:25am Subject: Re: Breville 800ESXL, can it make a good shot?
Thanks for giving me hope arpi! I'm going to try your method before I give up. I'll let you know how it goes.
Sorry, protozoider, I replied before I saw your post. That's exactly what happens with my machine... All that fake crema, but no quality espresso, in my opinion.
Posted Fri Oct 24, 2008, 12:08pm Subject: Re: Breville 800ESXL, can it make a good shot?
Protozoider, I've looked at the video and it looks like it comes out pouring really fast. I think the grind needs to be a lot finer than that, otherwise you'll get acid flavors.
Alicia, I think many people has just bought the Breville on sale including myself ;) I think it is unfair to judge the quality till you get a shot longer than about 20 seconds. Good luck
aliciaicila Senior Member Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 4 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Oct 24, 2008, 12:55pm Subject: Re: Breville 800ESXL, can it make a good shot?
I just made 2 shots in the last 2 hours and it's getting better.
The last one was the best so far: it didn't have a ton of the fake foam on top, but something that looked much more like the crema I was expecting. I pressed the ground coffee into the filter basket with all the force possible in my body. Now I'm just worried about getting it clogged as ILUVDABEAN says can happen.
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Oct 24, 2008, 4:13pm Subject: Re: Breville 800ESXL, can it make a good shot?
After owning the machine for the very short time I did,I would get over the idea of trying to tamp to 30 lbs with fine espresso and having a double shot last around 25-30 seconds...its way to frustrating. I wouldnt even use a non pressurized filter basket,I would use thier pressurized filter ,a coarser ground espresso and just live with it. When you try to interfere with the machines designed capability you just end up getting frustrated. It is what is.
Posted Sat Oct 25, 2008, 7:56am Subject: Re: Breville 800ESXL, can it make a good shot?
I think it all has to do with the grinder. With my grinder it taskes me 1/2 turn to make about 10 seconds difference. Tamping does little difference. I know I do good tamping because at first nothing comes out and then it comes out slowly. If it were to come out quick then there would be no resistance. I can make 1/2 oz in 30" as well as 1 oz in 30" as well as 1.5 oz in 30". This morning I was doing cupping with a friend. I was doing all ranges of espresso to change flavors with the same beans. From very super tasty to alcoholic-nuty tones. So, where is the problem with other people? I think it is grinder.
aliciaicila Senior Member Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 4 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Oct 25, 2008, 8:11am Subject: Re: Breville 800ESXL, can it make a good shot?
Well, it's getting better here, but I still think it's not giving me rich enough shots. Sounds like you're getting great results from the machine, Arpi. I'm grinding on the second finest grind on my machine; this afternoon I'll see what happens with the finest grind.
How hot should the coffee be coming out? We are surprised that it is not piping hot coming out of this machine. I realize that we're used to our steam Krups machine, which will evidently produce much hotter liquid, but I still feel that the Breville is not hot enough.
Finally, I have been searching for the 2 cup non-pressurized baskets, but krups online is out of them. Does anyone know where else I might check or of another brand (with the specific part number) that will fit this machine? I see some Saeco non-pressurized baskets at seattle coffee; will those work?
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Oct 25, 2008, 8:19am Subject: Re: Breville 800ESXL, can it make a good shot?
I spent more time than I care to think about using my tamper on the bathroom scales finding out what 30 lbs was.I think if you use a 30 lb tamp with that pressureized basket sooner or later your going to run into issues,at least I did. I am not trying to pick on your machine but I owned one,if you enjoy it then thats great and I say use it. My only point is that in answer to your question, I would conclude after my experience that it makes an espresso like substance but it isnt close to what the machine I traded it in for makes and that is the Gaggia Classic,it really is different.I was lucky I could take mine back no questions asked. I would advise anyone buying an espresso machine to not buy one with a pressurized basket. I think people are caught by Brevilles looks but under the hood its got issues. Buy some Lavazza in Blu preground.....tamp to 30 lbs and your Breville filter basket will choke within a week,that I am sure of.
Posted Sun Oct 26, 2008, 8:45am Subject: Re: Breville 800ESXL, can it make a good shot?
OK. I think I use much less than 30 lbs. This is how I always get good tamping. It is easy. Grind to fill up halfway. Use a toothpick to stir it up in circular motion for about 30 seconds. Give some taps against the table. The center will sink more than the walls. Fill up some more on the center. Use the toothpick again to break clumps but this time also use the toothpick to push and pile more on the center. Tap the portafilter again against the table several times. Now you get a flatten mountain with a low peak on the center. You should notice everything is well distributed. Now tamp. This works for me.
I bought the Breville without knowing anything :( but I do what ever I can to compensate for the machine
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Oct 26, 2008, 12:17pm Subject: Re: Breville 800ESXL, can it make a good shot?
arpi Said:
OK. I think I use much less than 30 lbs. This is how I always get good tamping. It is easy. Grind to fill up halfway. Use a toothpick to stir it up in circular motion for about 30 seconds. Give some taps against the table. The center will sink more than the walls. Fill up some more on the center. Use the toothpick again to break clumps but this time also use the toothpick to push and pile more on the center. Tap the portafilter again against the table several times. Now you get a flatten mountain with a low peak on the center. You should notice everything is well distributed. Now tamp. This works for me.
I bought the Breville without knowing anything :( but I do what ever I can to compensate for the machine
"While some people claim tamping your espresso ground coffee isn't necessary - let the dispersion screen (that screen in your brewhead of your machine) do the tamping - I say this is false and bad advice. So do most modern day espresso experts - tamping is a variable you must control on your own to get consistently great shots. Don't give up the variable. One noted expert, David Schomer, recommends a 30 pound tamp. The book Espresso Chemistry, by Andrea Illy, also recommends a suitable (and heavy) tamping for proper brewing controls.
How do you know what 30 pounds of pressure is? Take your tamper and portafilter to the bathroom, and tamp on the scale - see what 30 lbs of pressure is like. Why tamp at 30 pounds? 20lbs or less allows too much water to find a "path of least resistance" around your grinds, instead of fully saturating it. The result is less extraction from your grounds. More than 30 pounds shouldn't be necessary, unless you're compromising for a coarse grind (see below). Note, Schomer's commentary is based on commercial grade machines, but is a good rule for home machines as well."
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