acctingman Senior Member Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 17 Location: USA Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sun Mar 22, 2009, 8:20am Subject: A Starbucks Mocha
Hello
I'm a Starbucks JUNKIE!!! I have it bad folks....REAL bad. I get 1 everyday and I'm spending $130 a month and I have to stop that.
So, I'm looking for a nice machine in the $200-$250ish range. Milk is milk :). I'll be buying the coffee beans @ Costco (the starbucks ones), but....here is the kicker. What do I use for the cocoa?
I've tried before, using a friends machine, with just the Hershey's syrup.....not even close!!! I know Starbucks uses a powdered cocoa that is lactose free. So, can anyone here recommend a powdered cocoa, or heck if a syrup if it's going to give me similar results? It can't be that hard, right? Looking for something that's close or spot on to the SB's Mocha.
sreppok Senior Member Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Hughson Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco Linea Grinder: 2x Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Fetco Commercial
Posted Sun Mar 22, 2009, 12:46pm Subject: Re: A Starbucks Mocha
Hello acctingman!
Venti Mochas are good, yes. But remember, they are designed to taste good! However, GreatTaste DOES NOT EQUAL Quality. It sounds like you enjoy the chocolate more than the drink itself. Here are my suggestions ...
First, mocha beans are a type of Arabica beans which have a rich, nutty acidic taste, similar to good dark chocolate. This is kinda the origin of the name, but as with most things, its probably mostly a spun tale.
Second, the drink, "mocha," is a latte with chocolate added. Now, I know some people will argue with me, but this is a logical statement.
Now, with those ideas in mind, ask yourself: Do I enjoy the quantity of the drink, or would I be willing to sacrifice the physical amount of the drink for something better? In the US (and probably other countries!), quantity has become more important than quality. We like BIG!!! This is why 8oz drinks just don't work here, and why I am trying to re-establish them at my shop.
If you are willing to go with a smaller drink, you can successfully make this drink at home. Now, for the fun part: experimenting!
First, go to Starbucks and ask for a Doppio espresso (2 shots) with 1 pump of mocha sauce. I ONLY suggest Starbucks because you know where one is, and you know what they taste like, and you might have money on a Starbucks card. Otherwise, there are many excellent indie shops around. Remember, asking not to be charged for one pump of mocha sauce at any shop cannot hurt, but don't get mad if they still do. Now, with your choco-fied espresso, do you like it? Is it too strong? Do you want it sweeter? Try a second pump in it. If you like either of these drinks, try replacing your mocha with this cheap, dark chocolaty goodness. If it is still too strong, move on.
Next, try good strong brewed coffee at home (or at Starbucks), with some Hershey's syrup, and maybe some milk. This will be sweeter, more like milk chocolate. Is this good? Home brewed coffee and Hershey's and milk is really cheap, and a great drink.
If you like the richness of the espresso with mocha sauce, but need more milk, you probably should be looking for a good home machine. If the brewed coffee, milk, and Hershey's is yummy, stick with that! Its cheap, not nearly as bad for you as mochas from SB, and you won't need to buy an espresso machine.
Other tips, if you want a good drink but have some time, practice with a double boiler and different types of bar chocolate. Also, look into getting a french press or a moka pot, and a good blade grinder. French presses can make much stronger coffee than drip machines, and are much richer, and amazing with chocolate. Moka pots make small amounts of coffee (like 16 oz) with lots of charisma, and also taste great with chocolate.
As for a machine, type, I am not nearly as experienced as others, but I will say that I am unhappy with most pump and steam-pressure driven machines (machines less than $400), because the pressure and temperature are not consistent. I am very happy with my French Press, moka pot, and cone-drip methods of coffee brewing. My steam-pressure machine sits unused, but when I do use it is make about the same amount and type of coffee as my moka pot, which takes half the time.
sreppok Senior Member Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Hughson Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco Linea Grinder: 2x Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Fetco Commercial
Posted Sun Mar 22, 2009, 12:51pm Subject: Re: A Starbucks Mocha
Oh, also, I forgot. If you want the taste of SB mocha, buy SB mocha. Most mocha sauces out there taste different, and thats a good thing! I have grown very fond of Torani mocha sauce, but Ghirardelli sauce takes the chocolate cake! Don't be afraid to try!
By the way, you can find both of those sauces at Costco, and they are very good, and will last you a while. But try to find a coffee shop which serves them first!
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sun Mar 22, 2009, 1:06pm Subject: Re: A Starbucks Mocha
To ONLY answer your question for a 200-250 machine...
Thats going to be tough to do. As you will also need a grinder roughly the same price, or a hand grinder. Which is a FINE choice, I LOVE mine, as do many others here, and theyre under 100 bucks.
Now, if you are ONLY going to be making mochas, I GUESS you could buy starbucks beans. HOWEVER. Espresso requires FRESH coffee. Within 2 weeks of the day it was roasted. That means ANYTHING you can buy in a supermarket, at starbucks, at dunkin donuts, a deli etc etc, is STALE, and will not make a good drink from an espresso machine. If you have a local roaster who sells beans within 3-5 days of being roasted...check him out. If not, there are plenty of places online that you can order coffee from,t hat wont be roasted until you order it. Coffee Klatch. Intelligentsia. Counter Culture. Terroir. Check those out too. Then again, you are lovin the starbucks mochas(they are good!) so if thats ALL your making, starbucks beans are fine. If you want to make other drinks, youll likely need other beans.
Grinder- If you want to get a hand grinder, go to Orphan Espresso and check out their ESPRESSO hand grinders. They garuntee them to be able to grind for espresso, and they do a great job with the grinders. If you want an electric grinder, check out the Ascaso I2 doserless, the Cunil Tranquilo and the Lelit pl53. Those are your cheapest grinders that will handle espresso, all roughly 250. There of course MANY more options, also more expensive.
Machine- A low end Gaggia is you best best for a good espresso machine. You can see all the Gaggia machine Here. The Gaggia espresso and Evolution are fine machines, and coupled with a grinder, will definatly help you save some money on your mocha habit.
For chocolate, I think the best chocolate syrup to use in an espresso drink is Godiva, but thats a personal Opinion. Someone who drinks mochas more then very rarely will probably be able to suggest some more brands. I mostly have it for guests and my friends, and they love it.
To me, the two most important things are the Beans, and the Grinder. THEN the machine, and of course,YOU. Gotta have fresh beans and a good grinder to even begin to attempt to make anything out of an espresso machine. Otherwise you will frustrate yourself to no end.
There is lots of info on this website, LOTS. Go check out the Article in the "guides&how tos" section, titled, "How to Buy and Espresso Machine". That will give you an idea of the process, and will likely stop you from buying the machine that target sells that says will make the best cappucino you ever had. :)
Kudos Jeff
P.S.- Use whole milk for the mocha. More Fat=More Gooder
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 5,462 Location: Vancouver, BC Expertise: Professional
Espresso: KvdW Speedster Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: A bit too many Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Sun Mar 22, 2009, 1:11pm Subject: Re: A Starbucks Mocha
What's the budget for your grinder?
I can't offer up a replica for Starbucks' Mocha; I can only say I make the rare mocha here using shavings from a brick of Calebaut 62% (semisweet) chocolate. Shave off about 30,40g with a knife, put it in the steaming pitcher, add good milk, and steam and froth the combo.
LurkerJohnny Senior Member Joined: 11 Apr 2004 Posts: 76 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco Linea 1 Group Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Krups Moka Brew (favourite) Roaster: Quest M3
Posted Sun Mar 22, 2009, 1:36pm Subject: Re: A Starbucks Mocha
Acctingman, Mochas are what got me started in the coffee craze as well. I just couldn't get enough of them and wanted to save money by making them at home. As stated earlier, $250 is not enough to buy a decent machine and grinder. Maybe if you buy one used...
While I agree that fresh coffee is important in espresso, since you are going to drown it in milk and chocolate, I personally do not think fresh matters as much anymore.
Chocolate: I personally like guittard chocolate syrup the best. You can buy it in a squeeze bottle or in a jug. DaVinci was not bad. Right now I am using Ghiradelli chocolate syrup (the one made for mochas), its not as rich and it is runnier than guittard.
You will find that in order to save money on drinks, you will be spending money :)
taoscoffee Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2009 Posts: 16 Location: Taos Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Mar 22, 2009, 2:12pm Subject: Re: A Starbucks Mocha
MarkPrince Said:
What's the budget for your grinder?
I can't offer up a replica for Starbucks' Mocha; I can only say I make the rare mocha here using shavings from a brick of Calebaut 62% (semisweet) chocolate. Shave off about 30,40g with a knife, put it in the steaming pitcher, add good milk, and steam and froth the combo.
OK. Now you got me. I am craving one of your creations. Looks like I need to go down to Whole Foods in Santa Fe and look for Calebaut chocolate. I haven't tried a mocha in 5 years and frankly forgot about them. That is why I love this board, there are always new experiences to try.
bento Senior Member Joined: 10 Mar 2009 Posts: 11 Location: Armstrong Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Mar 22, 2009, 2:48pm Subject: Re: A Starbucks Mocha
Hey... I'm a (somewhat reluctant) Starbucks barista and I've made my fair share of Starbucks Mochas. The actual mocha sauce is made from a combination of pre-made powder combined with 2L of water. I'm not entirely sure how, exactly, the powder is made... but you might be able to actually buy the Starbucks Mocha sauce directly from some of the Starbucks stores. I know we, for instance, sell the Chai sauce that goes directly into our Chai Latte drinks. Worth looking into. And from there, it's just about finding the correct ratio of chocolate, espresso, and milk. The 12oz (tall) drink has 1 shot of espresso, while the 16oz and 20oz drinks have 2 shots. They have 3, 4, 5 pumps of mocha sauce respectively. Topped with milk. Finished with whipped cream.
I do agree that the Starbucks mocha is one of their better drinks, and is better than most other mochas I've had around here.
For what it's worth, I recommend getting a mocha without whipped cream and with whole milk. Much better.
You'll have better results cheaping out on the machine and buying a better grinder. The grinder is the single most important piece of equipment when making espresso. The suggestion is to spend 1/3 of your budget on a grinder. If your budget is $250 I'd bump that up to half. You can probably find a used le lit or iberital or nemox lux in that range.
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