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PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > PID Isomac...

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dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Sun Mar 21, 2004, 9:33am Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

Well, I did it. I ordered the temperature controller and other parts for my Zaffiro. These are the parts I chose: Fuji PXR3-RCY1 Controller TTI Global Reverse action SSR output Type J thermocouple with washer style tip TTI Global 50 amp Solid State Relay McMaster Carr input 3-30 VDC, output 300VAC McMaster # 7456K31 available at mcmaster.com The amp rating on the SSR sounds excessive, but the ratings apply with the optional heat sink. I'll use the metal housing as a heat sink which may be less effective because of its already high temperature. It looks like the thermostat position might be convenient for mounting the SSR, but that location could be too hot. There's a cooler area on the lower right front panel. I don't want to cut a hole in my machine, so the controller will have to be external for now.

dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Tue Mar 30, 2004, 11:00am Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

OK, don't laugh. I PID'd my Zaffiro. After a lot of frustration with an absurdly long and complex surfing routine, this turns out to be the easiest solution. Some of you have probably read my other posts about temperature problems on my Zaffiro. None of my Tstats failed, but the temperature differential on both of them is in Starbucks Barista territory or worse. I'm inclined to think that this is how Isomac "fixed" the failing thermostat problem. The wide differential combined with a large boiler is actually harder to temperature surf than any small boiler machine ever was. The powerful heating element, while nice when you want to get up to steam temp quickly, is prone to overshooting the tstat setting, which increases the temperature differential even more. I could no longer justify spending 20 minutes at the machine every morning. This morning I was able to walk up to the machine and pull my shots without doing the surfing dance. Now my wife will be able to use it too, with equally good results. Also, for those of you that don't want to deface your machines with an external controller, I think I've found a good option to PID controllers that you can mount internally, and get improved temperature control, but without the readout and programability. You can change the temperature setting by turning a screw. You can get a readout of the temp while setting it by hooking up a regular voltmeter. It's a proportional contoller only and should be perfect for those who want to set it and forget it. Its also about half as expensive as a PID controller. Here's a link to the non-proportional version which should give you the general idea: http://www.minco.com/pdf/ct325man.pdf

dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Tue Mar 30, 2004, 3:31pm Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

I think I've found a good option to PID controllers that you can mount internally This is NOT what I put on my machine. I used the Fuji controller.

mguterman
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 24
Location: West Haven, CT
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Amica
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Vac Pot: Bodum
Drip: Melita single cone
Roaster: Hottop

Posted Sat Apr 3, 2004, 6:49am
Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

dcbrown Said:

This is NOT what I put on my machine. I used the Fuji controller.

Posted March 30, 2004 link

I would really love to see how you wired this. I want to PID my Amica, but I am not handy at all. Thanks.

Michael

Cryptoman
Senior Member

Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 30
Location: S. Florida
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Solis SL70
Grinder: Solis Maestro Plus
Drip: Korrupts
Roaster: Air popper

Posted Sat Apr 3, 2004, 9:41am
Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

dcbrown Said:

OK, don't laugh. I PID'd my Zaffiro.

Posted March 30, 2004 link

But is that a true PID? It doesn't look like the device compensates for overshoot. It is a simple high/low switch. It's still useful as a way to give you more control over the brew temp than the factory setup, however.

The nice thing though is that you could mount a low-profile digital panel meter (even a stick-on one) to the front of your machine to view the temperature. Many machines do not have sufficient depth behind the front panel to accomodate a 1/32 DIN PID. Does anyone know of a true PID without display?

Dave

dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Sat Apr 3, 2004, 9:55am Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

I would really love to see how you wired this. I want to PID my Amica Go for it. It was easier than I thought it would be, and my morning routine is much now a breeze and with much more consistent results. If you buy the parts you will quickly see how to connect them. It took a while to get the best tuning on the PID, but you can start with my settings. I took a few pictures when I installed it. I'll try posting a few here, but if they're too small I can email them to you. As for the wiring, wire the controller to the SSR and thermocouple according to the instructions that come with your controller. If the indicated temperature goes down when it should be going up, reverse the thermocouple wires. The SSR replaces the thermostat, so plug the same wires into the SSR that are now attached to the thermostat. Stuff the thermocouple into the thermowell that your tstat probe is in now. It just drops in. I thought I would need a more elaborate method of attaching the thermocouple to get good contact, but it doesn't seem to be necessary because the well is so deep. I've considered pouring a few copper BBs into the well around the TC to improve the response. The wires from the controller pass under the warming tray near the front, so the warming tray won't go down all the way now. One small notch in the warming tray would fix that problem, but I wanted to keep the install reversible for a while.

korngold
Senior Member

Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 636
Location: Des Moines, IA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Audrey
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Melitta Clarity
Roaster: WE Popcorn Pumper

Posted Sat Apr 3, 2004, 1:48pm Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

I couldn't get the link to open, but managed to find a page about it here. It looks like it can only handle 240 watts (whereas the heating elements of most machines are 800+ watts), and it appears to use DC power. But, I no very little about electrical engineering. Would this unit work in an espresso machine?

dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Sat Apr 3, 2004, 3:17pm Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

But is that a true PID? It doesn't look like the device compensates for overshoot. It is a simple high/low switch. It's still useful as a way to give you more control over the brew temp than the factory setup, however. I installed a normal Fuji PID type controller on my Zaffiro. The link is to another controller that I thought would be a reasonable option for those that don't want to an external controller. The one shown is ON/OFF with a differential of only 0.2F. It is available as a proportional controller and can be used with an SSR for higher wattages. I spoke to the manufacturer about it, but they don't show it on their web site. It is not PID because it doesn't have the Integral and Differential options, but is much better than the stock tstat with a 8-10 degree differential and no proportional control. If I understand correctly, there isn't much reason to have the Integral function on a controller without a display. You would adjust it till it leveled at the right temp. The Integral corrects for "droop" when the temp levels at a temp that's less than the set or displayed value. All that said, I choose the PID controller and am glad I did.

mguterman
Senior Member

Posted Sat Apr 3, 2004, 7:26pm
Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

dcbrown Said:

Go for it. It was easier than I thought it would be, and my morning routine is much now a breeze and with much more consistent results. If you buy the parts you will quickly see how to connect them. It took a while to get the best tuning on the PID, but you can start with my settings. I took a few pictures when I installed it. I'll try posting a few here, but if they're too small I can email them to you.

<snip>

Thanks. I will look forward to seeing them. It sounds pretty easy. I guess I should order the parts.

Michael

dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Sun Apr 4, 2004, 9:44am Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

SSR mounted to thermostat bracket... This is the easy place to mount it. There's a cooler spot on the lower front of the machine, but that would require a little more work. The light colored corrugated sleeve encloses the thermocouple wires and the wires that connect the SSR to the controller. The connector prongs from the old thermostat were used so the wires could plug in without any modification. It doesn't appear to matter which wire connects to which terminal. The metal plate on the SSR is in contact with the bracket to conduct heat away from the SSR. So far this is working fine, but I don't leave the machine on all day. (Click for larger image)

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