Posted Mon Oct 12, 2009, 10:36pm Subject: Anyone recommend a machine with the E61 and double boiler or HX for $1200-$1500?
Hi folks I am seeking to upgrade to an espresso machine that has a double boiler or HX to make a lot of steam--but want to stay with the E61 grouphead which makes superb espresso. Does anybody recommend any machines for me? Thanks!
Any of the high end double boiler machines are capable of producing "superb" espresso, and it's more about the grinder and beans and the operator than it is about the machine (the E61 group is great but not the end-all / be-all). I would check the Vivaldi machines (starting around $2k) and Isso Duetto (around $2300).
Double boilers tend to start just outside of your desired price range, so why not check out the high end HX machines? There are plenty of those inside of your price range.
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Tue Oct 13, 2009, 1:32am Subject: Re: Anyone recommend a machine with the E61 and double boiler for $1200-$1500?
Yep.. The ONLY E-61 Double Boiler in your desired price range, is the Vibiemme Junior Double Boiler.. Found either at 1stLine Equipment, or Stefano's EspressoCare. It should be noted, that unlike every other E-61 DoubleBoiler, there is no electronic temperature control, PID or otherwise. I THINK that the VBM JR Double Boiler uses a similar thermostat as the Single Boiler Alexia for the Brew Boiler. IF it does use that, it is still adjustable. Im waiting for someone to make a PID Kit for the VBM JR DB, giving coffeegeeks a double boiler option possibly under 2K. Heh, wouldn't that be nice!
If you're planning an upgrade, Id also consider an upgrade from your Rocky. The Rocky is FAR from a bad grinder, but I think you would enjoy your new machine more, if you upgraded your grinder as well. Mazzer Mini/MacapM4, Cimbali Max Hybrid, Macap MXK, Baratza Vario, Compak K6 are all grinder under 1K, and all would be a nice addition to an HX or DB machine. Im liking the Macap MXK, personally. The Baratza Vario is probably the best "bang-for-your-buck" option, at under $400, and pretty much equal to the superjolly in the cup... Not to mention it makes it a snap to go from PressPot, to Espresso grinds, without a lot of work, or loosing your super-tuned setting. Easily fits under the counter too.
That said.. 1200-1500 can get you a nice HX machine. Chris' Coffee currently is offering a $200 discount on the Quickmill Vetrano, putting it at $1600 shipped. The Izzo Alex Rotary ends up at $1550, after the discount. Both very nice machines anybody would be happy to own.
However.. If you are set on getting a double boiler, and planned on spending $1500, you're not that far away from a DoubleBoiler. I think the Alex Duetto is the most expensive of the lot, at $2300. On the other end, as Jon noted, the Expobar Brewtus II, only $1700(WholeLatteLove, from Time to Time, has Refurbed models for less). The "regular" VBM double boilers come in a couple different configurations, with slightly different prices. The priciest, is the Plumbed-in, Volumetric-Dosed Double Boiler... Same price as the Duetto. On the lower-priced end, the Manual(levetta), vibe pump, I believe is right at 2K.
My current, 100% personal choice for prosumer double boiler machines, is the Izzo Alex Duetto II. I really, really like the fact that it is a Rotary Pump machine, without direct plumbing required, though it of course can be plumbed in. I also like the small brew boiler/higher wattage heating element, compared to most of the other machines on the market(.8L/800W)... (The Vivaldi II has the "best".. {.45L/800W}). Both boilers are PID'd, and while there is prob NO performance increase, not having to replace the Pstat now and then isn't a bad thing. The PID can display actual brew temp, instead of boiler temp... Also nothing to do with performance. And the last thing, is the Drained-Drip tray, if you wish. In my completely humble opinion, I believe, at least for my desires, the DuettoII takes all the good things about current DB machines and rolls it into one machine.
That said.. ANY of the Double Boilers currently available have the ability to put out great espresso. ANY of them would be pleasing to use and own. My liking of the Duetto is just that... What I like.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
As has already been pointed out, the Vibiemme JUNIOR is the only machine that comes close. It is available from 1st-Line or from Stefano's Espresso Care for $1469. Other than that . . . zilch!
BUT WHY??? The Vibiemme Junior DB has a steam boiler of only 0.75L, the same size found in your Alexia. (Granted your Alexia is an SBDU, but when it's in "steam mode," you have a dedicated 0.75L steam boiler, don't you?) In other words, I'm not sure you'd notice any significant improvement in steam power. True, you'd eliminate the waiting period of moving in between brew and steam temperature, but or actual steam power . . .
Why have you decided to not look at HX models? Bigger boilers = more steam power, and within your budget . . .
Posted Tue Oct 13, 2009, 7:31pm Subject: Re: Anyone recommend a machine with the E61 and double boiler for $1200-$1500?
OK the HX is fine with me. I need the steam to make hot chocolate. I am also very concerned to have a boiler with a heating element that doesn't burn out. Seems like they are all Italian machines so all probably have similar heating elements. Are any of them know to be more reliable? Thanks a lot for all the info, it is very helpful....
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Tue Oct 13, 2009, 7:43pm Subject: Re: Anyone recommend a machine with the E61 and double boiler for $1200-$1500?
Do you like your Quick Mill Alexia? If so, check out the Quick Mill Anita ($1450). It has a 1.6L boiler (vs. the 0.75L boiler of your Alexia), so you'll have lots of steaming power.
If you can s-t-r-e-t-c-h your budget a bit, you may want to look at the Izzo Alex -- it has a 2.0L boiler and can easily flip back-and-forth between pourover and plumbed-in operation, in case that's a possibility in the future.
Posted Tue Oct 13, 2009, 8:46pm Subject: Re: Anyone recommend a machine with the E61 and double boiler for $1200-$1500?
To the OP - your previous posts have suggested some less-than-positive experiences with your Alexia. You may want to consider the Bezzera BZ02 (same internals as the Pasquini Livia 90) or the new BZ07. I've had a chance to use both of them recently, and have found them to be good performers at a very competitive price point ($1000). AFAIK, they're sold online by some reputable dealers, so repair/replacement/warranty issues should be minimal. If you're willing to explore, you may also consider the Salvatore One Black, which has a 6 year warranty, also at $1k. Had I not found a deal on my Rituale, I would strongly consider the BZ07.
With your past experience, I could understand any hesitance to buy used, but you might want to take heart in the fact that most of the prosumer-level E61-based machines (Isomac, QuickMill, Giotto, Expobar etc.) have readily available replacement parts. If you're at all mechanically inclined, the machines are relatively simple; if you're not, any reputable espresso service shop should be able to service your machine at a very reasonable cost.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 