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PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > PID Isomac...

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dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Sun Apr 4, 2004, 9:46am Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

Controller mounted to housing with double stick tape. The grey wire protector goes in at the front of the warming tray. I had to bend up the front corner of the metal piece underneath (the part just in front of the resevoir that has vent holes in the top) to get the wires in. I'll need to add a notch to the warming tray to get it to go back in all the way. If anyone has a better idea for where to attach this beast please let me know! (Click for larger image)

dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Sun Apr 4, 2004, 10:10am Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

The controller, SSR and thermocouple wired together prior to installing... This shows a seperate power cord for the controller, but you could just as easily tap into your machine's main power switch. Take this assembly and connect the wires that previously went to your tstat to the SSR outputs. My SSR has a different type of connector than the tstat its replacing, so I borrowed the connection prongs from my old thermostat and screwed them to the SSR outputs. This allowed me to plug the wires in without cutting off the connectors, but I'm sure it isn't really the best way to do it. Now stuff the thermocouple in the well, and it works! (Click for larger image)

GoAway
Senior Member

Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 65
Location: dregs
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Apr 4, 2004, 12:32pm Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

Hi, Do you have any other method of measuring temperatures to see how well it's doing with respect to real temp vs what the display reads? A way to calibrate it? Two things: How is the SSR mounted? Not double-sided sticky tape I hope. I cannot see the screws. Foam + glue + heat = bad. Besides it won't hold more than a couple days. Also, PVC is very bad. That split-loom tubing, is it PVC? Does the machine have an added smell if you leave it on awhile? If it's PVC I'd remove it, it's not safe anywhere > 165 F and besides melting and looking funky the stuff gives off all sorts of nasty (ie cancerous, deadly) fumes when it does. Same for your wiring, if you used any with PVC insulation please rip it out and reinstall with wire jacketed with silicone or teflon. I hate to say it, you did such a nice job... But it looks like the insulators on your crimp-on fork tongue connectors are generic PVC ones too. Notice the ones in the machine are much harder, probably nylon. Hey it's your call. It might not get that hot in there. But considering when steaming you could approach 300F at the boiler mere inches away, me personally -- I'd verify there's no PVC in there.

Now, now; perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything!

dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Sun Apr 4, 2004, 3:36pm
Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

Do you have any other method of measuring temperatures to see how well it's doing with respect to real temp vs what the display reads? A way to calibrate it?

I measure the temperature in the group with an insulated cup, but also adjust by taste. The idea is to have a repeatable temperature, rather than a known temperature.

There's a screw on the front of the group that can be removed to insert a temperature probe into the group itself. I'm drilling a hole in a setscrew to allow sealing the probe in. I don't plan on leaving it that way, but will operate with the probe for a few weeks to get a feel for the temp variations inside the group. The temperature drop in the boiler after a shot is about 10F. This might be exaggerated by the flow of cold water into the boiler washing over the thermowell.

How is the SSR mounted? Not double-sided sticky tape I hope.

The SSR is screwed onto the bracket. There is a metal plate on the bottom that transfers heat to the mounting bracket. If it shows signs of overheating I'll move it to the other location mentioned earlier. For now it seems to be fine.

mguterman
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 24
Location: West Haven, CT
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Amica
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Vac Pot: Bodum
Drip: Melita single cone
Roaster: Hottop

Posted Sun Apr 4, 2004, 9:50pm
Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

dcbrown Said:

SSR mounted to thermostat bracket...

This is the easy place to mount it. There's a cooler spot on the lower front of the machine, but that would require a little more work.

The light colored corrugated sleeve encloses the thermocouple wires and the wires that connect the SSR to the controller.

The connector prongs from the old thermostat were used so the wires could plug in without any modification. It doesn't appear to matter which wire connects to which terminal.

The metal plate on the SSR is in contact with the bracket to conduct heat away from the SSR. So far this is working fine, but I don't leave the machine on all day.

Posted April 4, 2004 link

Would there have been room to mount the version of the SSR with the integral heatsink? Thanks for posting the pictures and information. I am going to order the stuff this week.

Michael

cai
Senior Member

Joined: 26 Oct 2002
Posts: 196
Location: il
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: zaffiro
Grinder: mazzer mini
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: chemex, Krups Moka
Roaster: Gene Cafe

Posted Sun Apr 4, 2004, 11:52pm Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

Greetings, Great job, David. I have a Zaffario and I get annoyed when the red light goes on in the middle of a shot. I can't seem to figure out when it's going to do it. I'm not ready to PID the unit -yet. Would inserting a thermocouple into the well that the thermostat probe sits in (leaving the probe inplace) give me an accurate reading what the boiler temp is and therefore I could tell if its ready to kick on? I could thread the wire thru the air vents under the warming tray. Thanks, Cliff Isackson

GaryH
Senior Member

Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 2,526
Location: San Jose California
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Zaffiro
Grinder: Macap M4 Doserless
Vac Pot: none
Drip: yes
Roaster: none

Posted Tue Apr 6, 2004, 3:57pm Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

With your PID Zaffiro, after pulling a shot how long does it take for the temperature to recover? How repeatable is the brew water temperature when you pull three shots in a row? Does the brew water temperature go up because the E61 brew head heats up? What is the PID temperature set point and what is the resulting brew water temperature?

dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Tue Apr 6, 2004, 4:44pm
Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

Would inserting a thermocouple into the well that the thermostat probe sits in (leaving the probe inplace) give me an accurate reading what the boiler temp is and therefore I could tell if its ready to kick on?

When I pull a shot I see a drop in displayed temp within 1 or 2 seconds. My PID is tuned to respond quickly (low time constant). If you use a meter, it would depend on whether the meter uses any time filtering to stabilize the readout. I don't have any heat transfer goop on the thermocouple at the moment... its just dangling in the well. But the well is deep and has a thin wall so it responds quickly.

When pulling a shot the temperature drop in the boiler is pretty sudden. I haven't timed it, but would guess that the 10F drop happens in about 10 seconds if the boiler doesn't come on. On my machine the drop is slowed because the controller responds to the drop and begins correcting about a third of the way through the shot.

Would there have been room to mount the version of the SSR with the integral heatsink?

I don't think there will be enough room in that location. It will interfere with the resevoir. You might want consider mounting it in the lower front of the machine, under the pressure gage. It's cooler there and there is more room. The surrounding air temperature will be more critical if your using a heatsink inside of the housing. I'm using the housing as a heatsink.

dcbrown
Senior Member

Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Zaffiro
Grinder: Innova i1d

Posted Tue Apr 6, 2004, 5:35pm
Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

With your PID Zaffiro, after pulling a shot how long does it take for the temperature to recover?

The PID responds almost immediately..about a third of the way into the shot, but it still takes several minutes for the temperature to stabilize. I suspect that the inlet is directed at the thermowell, and because of that there is some overcorrection. Preheating the water would help.

How repeatable is the brew water temperature when you pull three shots in a row? Does the brew water temperature go up because the E61 brew head heats up?

The group temperature and shot temperature vary less than the boiler temperature, but I wouldn't pull 3 shots in a row with this setup. I would estimate the brew temperature drops by 4-6 degrees after a shot (It drops a couple of degrees during the shot). The boiler is still small compared to a commercial machine. Again, preheating the water would make an enourmous difference.

What is the PID temperature set point and what is the resulting brew water temperature?

I'm still fine tuning the temps, but am currently set at 213F which is about 202 at the group head.

I'm hedging here because I've measured temperatures a few degrees higher with styrofoam cup measurements than what I've measured inside the head while pulling a real shot. This is the reverse of what I expected, and has caused me to chase my tail a bit with the shot temperature. I guess it's time to do this the right way and stick a TC in the filter basket.

The pressure involved when pulling a real shot seems to increase the cooling action. I've wondered if the plumbing might be acting as a "heat pipe" at low pressures. This is an effect that happens when a fluid is near its boiling point. The steam vapor will rapidly transfer heat from a warmer location to a cooler location. Pumping pressure could suppress the vaporization of water in the tube that would otherwise transfer too much heat to the group.

GaryH
Senior Member

Posted Tue Apr 6, 2004, 9:40pm Subject: Re: PID Isomac Single Boiler Machine

So about a third of the way into the shot the heater element turns on. How many seconds does the heater/boiler element stay on?

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