Posted Sat Oct 17, 2009, 1:16pm Subject: New Gaggia Espresso Machines Shipped Wet?
I will not mention any vendors and am truly trying to be constructive. This is not about a vendor it is a reality check for me to ensure I am fair to the vedor. I do want to be fair.
I am excited by my recent decision to purchase a Gaggia Pure. I bought new because for the little amount of money saved going refurb it was worth peace of mind.
When the machine arrived yesterday evening I opened it up like a little boy at christmas and it was dripping wet. I could fill the better part of a shot glass with the water I poured out of it. The box holding the accessories was waterlogged and ripped. The resovoir had the measurable water but there was also water all over the front and rear of the machine. It also had appeared to be wiped down previously.
The colorful box (inside another brown box and yet another...nice pack job) appears as if it had been opened and resealed. I can tell because the tape with the gaggia name all over it had been sliced and another layer of tape is over it.
I called the unnamed vendor and their CS was not available today.... only sales. The sales person says all the gaggias ship wet due to testing. He indicated they come from Italy that way. He also said the box may have been opened to put more or different documentation in it. This does not add up with what I see (the amount of water and evidence the thing had been removed from the box). When the conversation went further he then said he has only heard of one other instance with this amount of water.
I am worried about a couple things.
First the electronics were wet for who knows how long. I have not tested it (want to get resolution with vendor before getting too far down the path) and do not know if they work. Even if they do I am unsure of longevity or long term impact of them being wet. My understanding is I pay shipping for warrantly claims so I want to roll the dice with a new machine.
Second, if I wanted a refurb machine I would have paid less and taken my chances with eyes open.
I think it a fair resoluiton for them to ship me a new, dry machine. And I would not expect to have to pay shipping to do so or to return this one.
Now for my reality check. I will be unable to discuss this with them until monday, and as I said I want to be fair. A little info would help.
Do all Gaggia machines really ship this wet? If so why have I not heard of this considering all the time I waste (not really it is always productive) lurking in here and obsessing on all things coffee.
Should I be concerned of impact if the thing does indeed work?
Is it unreasonable to expect a new dry (or at least not soaked) machine with no additional shipping?
What would you do?
Please keep it constructive either way. I am not interested in causing trouble or stirring any pots other than perhaps my frothing pitcher.
*snif sniff* and yes I am a big baby. I was really looking forward to playing with my new toy this weekend.... but alas it is prudent to wait.
JGG Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 1,343 Location: Kentucky, US Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia Grinder: Mazzer Mini E (A), SJ; Rocky... Roaster: Hottop D w/PID; Thermometric...
Posted Sat Oct 17, 2009, 1:37pm Subject: Re: New Gaggia Espresso Machines Shipped Wet?
Wow -- how frustrating!
I don't think this is at all normal.
I suspect you received a "buyer's remorse" return. Once it is dry, though, it may be fully usable. I would wait and see if it works after it is dry. If no, then decision is easy: demand replacement along with prepaid ship label.
If it works OK, then it is probably going to be easier to keep the unit, and ask for some other consideration from the seller.
FredK Senior Member Joined: 28 Jun 2009 Posts: 152 Location: NJ Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic Grinder: Kyocera hand grinder Roaster: FreshRoast+8
Posted Sat Oct 17, 2009, 2:31pm Subject: Re: New Gaggia Espresso Machines Shipped Wet?
It sounds like you got someones return. Gaggias may ship with a small amount of water in the boiler, but not water logged where the electronics could be compromised. I would not wait to see if it works after it dries out. If water got in the electronics, corrosion may have already started to form. You don't know how long the unit was wet. I would return it and ask for a full refund and purchase the item from someone else. Companies that sell used equipment as new should not be in business.
Posted Sat Oct 17, 2009, 4:04pm Subject: Re: New Gaggia Espresso Machines Shipped Wet?
Thanks for the feedback.
I actually thought it could be a buyers remorse return that was sealed up pretty good by the returnee and the vendor may have been told it had never been opened. After I got over my initial anger at the "vendor" doing something I considered bad business practice I started to look at it as if maybe we both were duped. IE I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. My encounter with the sales staff this morning didn't give me a fuzzy feeling about things.
They are a major vendor mentioned in here quite a bit in both good and bad light.
But it sounds as if the machines may be shipped from Gaggia with a little bit of water in them albiet not a couple oz of water or more?
I am leaning toward just sending the whole thing back and being done with it. I don't want to be waiting for failure. The quesiton is do I give the vendor a chance to send another or move on to another vendor. I suppose it comes down to if I beleive them or not and right now I don't know. The sales guy seemed to be making excuses before I even had a chance to speak. But one individual does not represent the whole company.
The machine is the same price from a few vendors so thats not an issue. I'd hate for this vendor to charge me shipping if/when I send it back. I think that would be wrong but it would also be a good sign to bite the bullet and cut ties with this vendor.
Posted Sat Oct 17, 2009, 5:14pm Subject: Re: New Gaggia Espresso Machines Shipped Wet?
I'm having a very hard time swallowing the whole "returned by a previous buyer" thing. Wouldn't the packaging be soaked already by the time the box got back to the vendor? I would think that even the most dishonest vendor would be smart enough to dry out the machine and packaging before sending it back out to another customer. Some vendors claim to test machines before sending them out and I suspect that this may be the case here, a machine that was tested and inadvertently was not drained before being repackaged. Another possibility is that the machine was used as a demo and, again, not drained before being shipped. It's entirely possible that this was simply an innocent mistake on the part of the vendor, it is also possible that the vendor is less than innocent. I think the response you get from the vendor will dictate how you should proceed from here. I would expect no less than a full replacement at no cost to you, if anything less than that is offered you should decline and get in touch with your credit card company. Let us know how it goes.
Posted Sat Oct 17, 2009, 6:54pm Subject: Re: New Gaggia Espresso Machines Shipped Wet?
Hopefully they will step up. I did not get a good feel on the phone today.
If they suggest sending this one back and them sending another with no additional cost to me I think I will be golden. If they suggest something other (as the guy on the phone this morning was hinting at... ie try it see if it works) that is not acceptable.
The more I think about it it could have been a customer return they did not open the box and look at. It was sealed up pretty good, and double boxed. There is no water damage on the outside of the box. It wouldn't have been wise but I could forgive that as an honest mistake.
Anything other than send it back with no additonal cost and we will send a new one with no additonal cost would seem lacking. I would then bite the bullet and turn elsewhere while fighting ANY cost with the credit card company.
But if they step up it will be no harm no foul.
I'll close the loop with yall good or bad.
I really just wanted to make sure I was not unreasonable. I was pretty disappointed and pretty mad initially.
Agree. A little detectable moisture can be expected, as some companies indeed test the equipment/make adjustments, but this is typically carried out on more expensive machines. Regardless, the amount of moisture you claim would be entirely unacceptable to me, and I would be seeking Sweaner's advice with this company asap. It's not unreasonable to expect a machine arrive dry or mostly dry...it's unreasonable to expect a customer to recieve a new machine wet per your description. Hope they are customer-service oriented, and resolve this to your satisfaction! :) G'luck!
cappuccinoboy Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2009 Posts: 793 Location: MILANO Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Milano pod, Milano fully... Grinder: grind on demand
Posted Sun Oct 18, 2009, 8:23am Subject: Re: New Gaggia Espresso Machines Shipped Wet?
Sasquatchbreath Said:
I will not mention any vendors and am truly trying to be constructive. This is not about a vendor it is a reality check for me to ensure I am fair to the vedor. I do want to be fair.
I am excited by my recent decision to purchase a Gaggia Pure. I bought new because for the little amount of money saved going refurb it was worth peace of mind.
When the machine arrived yesterday evening I opened it up like a little boy at christmas and it was dripping wet. I could fill the better part of a shot glass with the water I poured out of it. The box holding the accessories was waterlogged and ripped. The resovoir had the measurable water but there was also water all over the front and rear of the machine. It also had appeared to be wiped down previously.
The colorful box (inside another brown box and yet another...nice pack job) appears as if it had been opened and resealed. I can tell because the tape with the gaggia name all over it had been sliced and another layer of tape is over it.
I called the unnamed vendor and their CS was not available today.... only sales. The sales person says all the gaggias ship wet due to testing. He indicated they come from Italy that way. He also said the box may have been opened to put more or different documentation in it. This does not add up with what I see (the amount of water and evidence the thing had been removed from the box). When the conversation went further he then said he has only heard of one other instance with this amount of water. ........................... .. but alas it is prudent to wait.
just my 2 cents : I do not know about Gaggia (and it is not likely I can find out since the entire production has been moved to Romania (sorry, no longer Made in Italy....), still as a general rule all espresso machines are tested before packaging, boiler machines are then completely water emptied to avoid frost problems (that's why you normally find the Notice to fill back the boiler when first starting the machine, then machine is thouroughly cleaned and packed for shipment : no machine leaves the factory in a wet box. Probably, as already pointed out, this is the result of a liberal return policy...... do what you have to do and do not let this vendor take you for a ride.... Ciao, Pietro
Posted Sun Oct 18, 2009, 8:42am Subject: Re: New Gaggia Espresso Machines Shipped Wet?
Thanks folks.
I have definitely reached a point where this machine will not be kept. Now its just an issue of do I let the vendor ship another or move on to another vendor.
If they really send me a used machine under the pretense of being new I'd most likely just move on to another vendor. That's where my delima is. While I suspect that may be the case, because I honestly do not think the thing was shipped from over seas with this amount of water in it, I can not 100% prove their intent.
After poking around a bit more in here, I am also concerned how the vendor will act if I chose to tell them they sent me a used machine and as a result I will not do business with them. It seems to me that they are all to willing to take a machine back but not refund the entire amount (IE make the customer pay shipping both ways). This would be unacceptable to me because its not my fault they shipped this machine.
Bottom line.... I have company next weekend and wanted to not only have my machine, but a little time with it. I am new to espresso although I have been roasting beans and making drip/press coffe for years.
Looks like I will not have a machine in time for my company.
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