strfish7 Senior Member Joined: 7 Aug 2009 Posts: 174 Location: San Antonio Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola,... Grinder: Vario Vac Pot: Bialetti Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster Roaster: Behmor, FreshRoast 8
Posted Sun Nov 1, 2009, 6:05pm Subject: Pros and Cons of Buying a Commercial Machine
Hey guys,
Let's pose the following hypothetical(!): you have the opportunity to buy a used 2 group commercial Nuovo Simonelli (how long and heavy the usage is unknown; the machine is perhaps 15 years old, but appears in good condition in photos) for a substantial and possibly ridiculous discount (maybe a few hundred dollars). The machine is without portafilters, baskets and accessories of any kind.
Questions:
What would you look for in inspecting this machine before purchase? How much would you allow for replacement portafilters and baskets? Where would these items be purchased? Any other issues you would be concerned with?
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sun Nov 1, 2009, 8:34pm Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of Buying a Commercial Machine
MOST LIKELY, you would be looking at a hell of a lot more then replacement portafilters and gaskets.
You are probably looking at a frame-off rebuild. EVERY single part dismantled, descaled, cleaned, and put back together. Many parts rebuilt or replaced.
At 15yrs old, this is almost SURELY what you can expect.
I doubt, extremely highly, that you will buy the machine, buy PFs and Baskets, hook it up and make espresso.
It could be a very fun rebuild, but its not going to be an uber deal on nice working machine.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
Posted Sun Nov 1, 2009, 8:55pm Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of Buying a Commercial Machine
agreed to Jeff,
PLUS, such a big machine most likely is 220V or need a dedicated line (20amps at least) in your house. not that is impossible, but another thing to consider.
strfish7 Senior Member Joined: 7 Aug 2009 Posts: 174 Location: San Antonio Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola,... Grinder: Vario Vac Pot: Bialetti Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster Roaster: Behmor, FreshRoast 8
Posted Mon Nov 2, 2009, 6:49am Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of Buying a Commercial Machine
Thanks for the input, guys. I had a feeling there were some issues like this. Based on the complexity of it, and the potential time involved, I will probably pass on this opportunity. I like tinkering with stuff, but that just means I have to limit my new projects, since I have so many.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Nov 2, 2009, 8:54am Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of Buying a Commercial Machine
I love having a commercial machine at home, BUT . . .
For example, my Elektra T1 is a single group, and with the possible exception of a two-group lever machine, I cannot imagine why a 2-group pump-driven machine is needed in a home environment. (Granted, I made 14 drinks yesterday morning -- six lattès at one time -- but that's the first time this has ever happened, and even so, I would like to think I pulled it off rather well.) But the Elektra is a 110v machine, and only needed a 20A circuit, rather than laying in a 220v (or even higher) line. It also has a 6.0L boiler, and draws 2000 watts.
Then there's the size of a commercial machine. My Elektra, or (e.g.) the Cimbali Junior DT/1, is certainly capable of true commercial duty in, say, a restaurant. But as a single group, it's not up to the demands of a true coffee house/café. Then there's the size. You don't mention the specific model of Nuova Simonelli, so sticking with my Elektra, its countertop footprint is 13.5" by 19.5" and it weighs 77 pounds. The two-group version of this machine comes in at 20" x 20" (some, of course, are much larger), weighs 101 pounds, and needs a 220v line. It has a 9.0L boiler and draws 3700 watts . . . don't underestimate the power needs of a true commercial machine! ;^)
strfish7 Senior Member Joined: 7 Aug 2009 Posts: 174 Location: San Antonio Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola,... Grinder: Vario Vac Pot: Bialetti Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster Roaster: Behmor, FreshRoast 8
Posted Mon Nov 2, 2009, 7:12pm Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of Buying a Commercial Machine
14 drinks in one morning...tdamn, Jason, that's a lot of coffee. You're exactly right, though; I'd be much more comfortable with a single group. The issue is now moot, however, since I've just purchased a Bezzera single group locally.
cappuccinoboy Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2009 Posts: 789 Location: MILANO Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Milano pod, Milano fully... Grinder: grind on demand
Posted Tue Nov 3, 2009, 2:26pm Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of Buying a Commercial Machine
strfish7 Said:
Hey guys,
Let's pose the following hypothetical(!): you have the opportunity to buy a used 2 group commercial Nuovo Simonelli (how long and heavy the usage is unknown; the machine is perhaps 15 years old, but appears in good condition in photos) for a substantial and possibly ridiculous discount (maybe a few hundred dollars). The machine is without portafilters, baskets and accessories of any kind.
Questions:
What would you look for in inspecting this machine before purchase? How much would you allow for replacement portafilters and baskets? Where would these items be purchased? Any other issues you would be concerned with?
if you love your power company, you should buy just for the sake of beeing ripped with power bills : check the wattage of machine and see if you can afford the potential bill in the first place: of course re-building could be a nice after hours, if you like the kind... Ciao, Pietro
A few hundred dollars for a 15 year-old multi-group machine is not that uncommon. But if I were to consider such a machine, I'd insist on one that came with everything needed to make it work (i.e. pump, portafilters, baskets). Not only would buying those items separately end up costing you more than the machine, but their absence may be a sign that the machine has a dubious history.
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