Perhaps that's why they can be found on eBay all day long brand new in the box for 1/3 or less of thier list price. And even at that price they should still be shyed away from.
cappuccinoboy Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2009 Posts: 789 Location: MILANO Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Milano pod, Milano fully... Grinder: grind on demand
Posted Tue Jan 12, 2010, 2:46pm Subject: Re: Any thoughts on the Breville Barista Express?
Dooglas Said:
I understand your argument that there are other technologies out there and that the situation is not so simply black and white. Having said that, you must acknowledge that this is a discussion about low cost espresso machines presently on the market, not about other directions technology may head in the future. To attempt to differentiate low cost thermoblock machines to a beginner and describe conventional HX machines as just another type of thermoblock is just plain misleading. How did you manage to make this statement without acknowledging that HX machines in fact have a boiler - typically a fairly large one for temperature stability and steaming capacity? It will be difficult to have a useful and informative discussion unless we all use the same terms.
I said in some past thread that you do not buy a van if you just need a city car..., I was just questioning a novice who had bought a second hand Mazzer Jolly instead of a brand new Lelit, stepless, 38mm conical burrs, although I admitted that he had bought a superior piece of equipment (still big and to be used without hopper because it did not fit....) When I say that after all HX is just an application of thermoblock technology (or viceversa...), I take for granted that anybody reading knows that the HX is in a boiler (the bigger the more thermally stable) and it is not addressed to the beginner, but to the geeks (who know very well....) I mean that any thermoblock (cheap or good..) can make more than decent espresso.... provided the MANO knows what he is dooing (and how to overcome possible minuses of the MACHINE..... also on better machines people talk of tricks like temperature surfing and, HEAR ..:: regular flushing on E61 groups......) I am positive : even a Breville in the hands of a barista can make more than decent shots......(some geeks go as far as saying that Grinder is more important because after all an espresso machine is only required to deliver hot water (consistent in temperature)...,in fact I tell Rarebear NOT to throw his machine away and that ONLY when he can get the most out of that very machine he has, he would be justified wanting to upgrade: I basically use the same terms : you and me know exactly what we talking about....and those who don't should try to make a little effort because the world is not just black and white but millions of colour nuances.... Now I do not question honesty of posters who try to convey their best knowledge to the newby very often from a very personal point of view (based on personal experience...), the question his :where is a beginner supposed to start.... that's why there is a big market for appliances that in my opinion because of cheap price succeed in getting people enter the espresso world..... (just stealig words from Zin1953 : even a Zinfandel wine is worth if it succeeds getting people to drink better wines...): if they like what they get, and if they see a chance of bettering the experience, then they will move on..... didn't Zin1953 franckly admit that for 25 years he was satisfied using a whirley grinder ?????
rarebear Said:
I would say cappuccinoboy aka Pietro Cicchetti is not a Professional but an Expert when it comes to espresso machines...
I think I understood what Pietro was saying.. I spent most of my life as a Model Marker/ Prototype Machinist ..
Model Makers were used to make models of patents before standards where made in drafting and every patent applacation needed a model so Patent Office was sure to understand patent prints...
Johnny I am not really an expert : I just know a little..., but for sure I have ideas... if you want to run a check on a US patent look at n. 5,768,981 (I am that Pietro C....) Ciao, Pietro
Happy New Year Pietro It's nice to see you posting again, welcome back to the forums And yes - the offer for coffee and conversation is still open - come by anytime ;-)
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Tue Jan 12, 2010, 4:05pm Subject: Re: Any thoughts on the Breville Barista Express?
Just for the record . . .
cappuccinoboy Said:
(just stealig words from Zin1953 : even a Zinfandel wine is worth if it succeeds getting people to drink better wines...): if they like what they get, and if they see a chance of bettering the experience, then they will move on.....
I don't remember the exact quote, Pietro, but I think the reference was to White Zinfandel -- a white wine made from Zinfandel (known in Italy as Primitivo), what the French would call a blanc de noirs (white wine from black grapes -- "vuoto di neri"?) It's generally very inexpensive and rarely very good. Zinfandel (made as a vino rosso), on the other hand, can be excellent and regularly retails here in the United States for as much as $50 per 750ml.
cappuccinoboy Said:
didn't Zin1953 franckly admit that for 25 years he was satisfied using a whirley grinder ?????
No, Pietro, I did not. I was satisfied with a blade grinder ("whirley grinder") when I was a teenager in college making drip coffee. When I purchased a La Pavoni Europicola 8 (around 1976? '78?), I quickly became frustrated with that blade grinder and struggled to make do. The problem with the late-1970s is that there was no internet, no source for information about what I was doing wrong; I remained frustrated until I finally got fed up with BOTH the Pavoni AND the blade grinder (not knowing where the fault really lay), and bought a Gaggia Coffee and a Gaggia MDF grinder.
It was that combination that I used for 25 years (and is still in daily use at the home of my wife's brother).
And, to echo JonR, the invitation does indeed remain open.
bambooculm Senior Member Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 11 Location: Sydney Australia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville BES860 Barista... Grinder: Sunbeam EM0480 Drip: Braun Roaster: Dog Bowl and Heat Gun
Posted Wed Jan 13, 2010, 5:25am Subject: Re: Any thoughts on the Breville Barista Express?
Once again, I will try to tell you the truth. The truth is that someone claimed to have owned a Barista Express and it was a deliberate and direct lie, as he did not even realise that it was a new model. I have been reading posts on this site for years before I actually registered. I registered in order to reply to garbage that infuriated me. On the subject of propaganda or plausible myth, the anti-thermobloc plausible myth originated on this website. The repetition of the plausible myth is a joke because the people who started that have since changed their minds. Anyone who has followed this site for a while will realise this. Look at the reviews of thermobloc machines on this website, and read the names of the reviewers. My previous post was removed because I called a spade a spade. How can people learn from those who tell deliberate and direct lies or perpetuate myths? Anyone who reads posts on this site has to have practised their myth detection. There are worse examples, but they are on another site. This thread will be a lasting example of people using a request for help to justify their blood sport, the use of a direct lie, and the perpetuation of an outdated myth. I will be referring to it as an example of exactly that on another site.
bambooculm Senior Member Joined: 16 Jul 2007 Posts: 11 Location: Sydney Australia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville BES860 Barista... Grinder: Sunbeam EM0480 Drip: Braun Roaster: Dog Bowl and Heat Gun
Posted Wed Jan 13, 2010, 8:37pm Subject: Re: Any thoughts on the Breville Barista Express?
With respect, and you are one I do respect, my occupation is not relevant. A bit of relevant trivia for you is that in blind taste tests by coffee professionals, the thermobloc machines will win the taste test every time. See Choice magazine reviews and elsewhere as well.This will probably be my last post on coffeegeeks, hopefully for years.
geoffbeier Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Posts: 339 Location: Arlington, VA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II, Gaggia... Grinder: Macap M4 Stepless, Faema MPN
Posted Wed Jan 13, 2010, 10:06pm Subject: Re: Any thoughts on the Breville Barista Express?
bambooculm Said:
With respect, and you are one I do respect, my occupation is not relevant. A bit of relevant trivia for you is that in blind taste tests by coffee professionals, the thermobloc machines will win the taste test every time. See Choice magazine reviews and elsewhere as well.This will probably be my last post on coffeegeeks, hopefully for years.
In the event you relent and decide to post here sooner than that, do you have a link to those taste tests online? The only choice magazine that rings a bell for me is this one and it certainly doesn't review espresso machines. Also (and I'm mainly asking because I couldn't find the reviews to look for myself) does it review the 110V model the OP was inquiring about, or the 220V models? Which professionals did the taste tests? What other machines were included in the evaluation? What coffee was used? Which grinder was used? Your comment opens many more questions than it answers when we can't look at the source :-) If those aren't online, do you have links to the blind tests elsewhere? I couldn't turn them up, but it's possible that my google-fu is simply weak tonight. Details like this, supported with links to the sources could make this discussion much more interesting...
At any rate, I hope you decide to come back sooner than "years" and that you spend most of your time here talking about coffee. 'Cause that's much more interesting than machines, isn't it? Otherwise why bother with these expensive kitchen gadgets?
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