ee61 Senior Member Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Posts: 37 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Sep 26, 2010, 9:39pm Subject: Blurred lines.. Silvano by Quick Mill
For individuals like myself confused and stuck with indecision between a few different machines with a much higher price tag, this new Silvano by Quick Mill could be the judge and jury at only a fraction of the current price of $795 USD @: http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/espresso/silvano
I am no expert, but this new machine seems like one heck of a deal with a nice set of features.
Interesting. Quite similar to the Quick Mill Emelia series developed together with a Swedish retailer about two years ago, available in both a standard version with thermostat and Deluxe with PID (though price difference was so small I can't imagine anyone not going with the latter). From what I can tell the Silvano was upgraded with a larger boiler, a manometer and a handle for pulling out the drip tray, but lost the insulated ball-joint steam wand of the Emilia. Certainly looks to be a good deal if the thermoblock steamer is up for the task.
I was thinking of ordering a Rancilio Silvia and Rocky grinder combo from SCG as a starter setup. Then I saw the Silvano on the Chris' Coffee Service site and am seriously tempted. It's more than I really want to spend on a first machine, but I was thinking if I end up buying one then perhaps I will bump the grinder to a Macap M4 or Mazzer Mini.
I was thinking of ordering a Rancilio Silvia and Rocky grinder combo from SCG as a starter setup. Then I saw the Silvano on the Chris' Coffee Service site and am seriously tempted. It's more than I really want to spend on a first machine, but I was thinking if I end up buying one then perhaps I will bump the grinder to a Macap M4 or Mazzer Mini.
You are in EXACTLY the situation I'm currently in. In fact, I was talking to Scott from CCS a few hours ago about the whole Silvia vs. Silvano thing, and I'm pretty sold on the Silvano at this point. Further, once I got interested in the Silvano, I switched my focus to either the M4 or the Mini as well.
Anyhoo, I'm hoping for more responses on this topic, because the Silvano sounds like a great option based on my research up to this point, but I'm really pretty new to this level of espresso making...
If I might inquire, regarding the Mini, are you thinking the "regular" or the electronic doserless? What is your "plus/minus" for the Macap vs. the Mazzer?
I'm shopping mostly by my level of cost aversion and what I have been reading in user reviews. If I thought I could spend less and get by then I would do it in a heartbeat. The home espresso gig is new to me too. I think the investment will be worthwhile and that I will put in the time and effort to learn the craft...but I don't know that for sure. It's worth about $1,400 to me find to out...but it isn't worth more than that as a jumping in point.
Getting back to the choice of grinder...I thought about the Baratza Vario as a match for the Silvano. But I just wasn't able to overcome my concerns about build quality. To me it looks like a $450 hunk of plastic. I don't care how good it grinds, because at that price I really expect something a little more substantial in terms of build quality. My logic, therefore, went something like "before plunking down $450 for a piece of plastic I would rather spend another $100 or $150 and get something that has better design and build durability and will meet my needs for accuracy." So that left me with the M4 and the Mini. I want a doser, and after reading about all the complaints of the Rocky's doser I feel that a step up is justified, since the Vario is out of the running.
I was planning to call CCS tomorrow to discuss the Silvano. Then I would like to get an order in for whatever I decide by Friday.
I don't care how good it grinds, because at that price I really expect something a little more substantial in terms of build quality. My logic, therefore, went something like "before plunking down $450 for a piece of plastic I would rather spend another $100 or $150 and get something that has better design and build durability and will meet my needs for accuracy."
Three things: a) better design? I would argue that the Vario represents better design, because they were able to get Super Jolly quality grinding packed into a housing smaller than a Mini. Not to mention it is the only grinder in the SJ class that can easily traverse from espresso to French Press and back again. b) build durability? We do not have enough data on that. I haven't seen reports of people's Varios falling apart. We need more data to say that it has poor durability. But I will say that the Baratza folks stand by their equipment, and if there's a problem, you won't have a problem getting it repaired. c) piece of plastic? I grant the case is plastic, but it is a very solid feeling piece of equipment. No ill-fitting bendy plastic.
The M4 and Mini are good grinders. They do not produce grind as good for espresso as the Vario. They do not have the near-stepless adjustment of the Vario. They also cannot go between espresso and other brewing methods as simply and painlessly. They are more expensive than the Vario. But if you're really fixated on a steel case, then I guess you'll have to pay more for lesser grind quality. We all have to make choices.
If you're going to spend $1400 for machine and grinder, I'd say get the Vario, and put the $150 toward the espresso machine instead and get a heat exchanger machine like this Bezerra. Trust me, I've been down the SBDU vs. HX path, and HX wins every time.
Dana Leighton - Espresso hack and CoffeeGeek moderator
Damn. Sorry -- I just realized the Bezerra has plastic in its housing. That will probably not work for you, regardless of the internal component quality? You really should think about it though...
Dana Leighton - Espresso hack and CoffeeGeek moderator
Three things: a) better design? I would argue that the Vario represents better design, because they were able to get Super Jolly quality grinding packed into a housing smaller than a Mini. Not to mention it is the only grinder in the SJ class that can easily traverse from espresso to French Press and back again. b) build durability? We do not have enough data on that. I haven't seen reports of people's Varios falling apart. We need more data to say that it has poor durability. But I will say that the Baratza folks stand by their equipment, and if there's a problem, you won't have a problem getting it repaired. c) piece of plastic? I grant the case is plastic, but it is a very solid feeling piece of equipment. No ill-fitting bendy plastic.
The M4 and Mini are good grinders. They do not produce grind as good for espresso as the Vario. They do not have the near-stepless adjustment of the Vario. They also cannot go between espresso and other brewing methods as simply and painlessly. They are more expensive than the Vario. But if you're really fixated on a steel case, then I guess you'll have to pay more for lesser grind quality. We all have to make choices.
If you're going to spend $1400 for machine and grinder, I'd say get the Vario, and put the $150 toward the espresso machine instead and get a heat exchanger machine like this Bezerra. Trust me, I've been down the SBDU vs. HX path, and HX wins every time.
As I said, I don't like the plastic case on the Vario. Nothing else about it matters to me. Owners can argue that it's a well made grinder, and if they are happy with their Varios then I am sincerely happy for them. But that doesn't change the fact that it looks like a cheap hunk of plastic to me. So there's no point in trying to persuade me otherwise. There are other choices that are better suited to my personal requirements, and choice is a great thing. Let's not labor over mine, please, since that decision is already made. I am only considering the M4 and the Mini. By everything I have read both are great grinders.
The Bezerra isn't an option that I'll consider since that would put me over budget. Keep in mind that I was originally going to buy a Silvia/Rocky combo for less than $1,000. Going up to $1,400 is a stretch...but not because I can't afford it. Rather, that is where I have arbitrarily chosen to draw the line, and I won't cross it regardless of how much better things get as price points move further North. If I can't brew a good cup of espresso for $1,400 then this just isn't for me, and I will have to settle for occasional trips to my local cafe. My heart will not be broken. I love coffee, but my life is not ruled by it. If, on the other hand, I find the experience enjoyable and the results positive then upgrading the espresso machine will be something I may think about in the future.
Why are we now talking about grinders and not the "Silvano by Quick Mill"?
I'm interested in this machine but without a single independent review it's hard to plop down $800 for it. Also, I note that Coffewishes.com are selling it for $795 with no mention of "20% off". I'm guessing that that's the going price and there's no reason to rush at it.
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