pumpkinscastle Senior Member Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 247 Location: Cincinnati, OH Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Quickmilll Vetrano Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Posted Wed Jan 5, 2011, 7:33pm Subject: Re: Chris Coffee's new Joystick steam and hot water arms...
Interesting replies so far. Seems like I will stick to my non-compression rotary valves although I am intrigued by the new joystick arms. However, paying $140 for a retrofit is not a cheap thing. It would be something to play with for sure but would offer me no real benefit over my current arms.
I'd like to see if there are users out there that have a new Quickmill machine with the actual arms that Chris Coffee is using.
CaliforniaJed Senior Member Joined: 1 Jan 2011 Posts: 5 Location: California Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Lever Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Posted Wed Jan 5, 2011, 9:19pm Subject: Re: Chris Coffee's new Joystick steam and hot water arms...
On a related note (and not to hijack the thread), I have been wondering why the La Spaziale Vivaldi II features a twist knob for steam while the Mini features the slider. I like the idea of the slider...
I'd think that wouldn't matter much so long as they're not in the way of the brew switch/lever or PF. It's not like they extend past the trip tray or anything.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Jan 6, 2011, 8:26am Subject: Re: Chris Coffee's new Joystick steam and hot water arms...
pumpkinscastle Said:
Interesting replies so far. Seems like I will stick to my non-compression rotary valves although I am intrigued by the new joystick arms. However, paying $140 for a retrofit is not a cheap thing.
Why would you? This is merely a different way of turning on-and-off the steam and hot water taps. I have one machine with non-compression valves; one machine with "joysticks" -- there is ZERO difference between them in terms of obtaining steam (or water). It's the same thing with cars: with my wife's, you put the key in the ignition; with mine, you keep the key in your pocket and push a button. Doesn't matter which method is used, as long as the car starts!
Ancamo Senior Member Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 157 Location: Gatineau,Qc Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic Grinder: Baratza Vario Vac Pot: Yama 5 cups Drip: Aeoropress / CCD Roaster: POPPERY I / SC-TO
Posted Thu Jan 6, 2011, 8:44am Subject: Re: Chris Coffee's new Joystick steam and hot water arms...
I don't know Jason, to me it just seems easier to use the joystick (mind you I haven't tried it) not that knobs are hard but personally i find that the knobs on the AP need too many turns to get full steam and then to get shut and with wet fingers they tend to be slippery (plus they are noisy). So I don't know the whole idea of instant on/off seduces me ;-) . Don't we prefer automatic windows on our cars instead of a handle/roll down type of thing ;-)))
Now on the price, I think they are so expensive because they come as the whole assembly, with the steam arm and tip (confirmed by Chris) it's not just the valve, so that might explain the price.
Posted Thu Jan 6, 2011, 10:09am Subject: Re: Chris Coffee's new Joystick steam and hot water arms...
Ancamo Said:
I don't know Jason, to me it just seems easier to use the joystick (mind you I haven't tried it) not that knobs are hard but personally i find that the knobs on the AP need too many turns to get full steam and then to get shut and with wet fingers they tend to be slippery (plus they are noisy). So I don't know the whole idea of instant on/off seduces me ;-) . Don't we prefer automatic windows on our cars instead of a handle/roll down type of thing ;-)))
Now on the price, I think they are so expensive because they come as the whole assembly, with the steam arm and tip (confirmed by Chris) it's not just the valve, so that might explain the price.
"Full" steam doesn't always mean opening the valve fully. I know with my valves, there's a half-turn dead zone to prevent accidental on. When steaming, I have to turn it MAYBE 1/8-1/4 turn past that for real full power...beyond that it's just wasting pressure. And that's with a 4 hole 1.2mm tip. With the two hole tip, and especially the two hole .9mm tip, cranking the thing two complete revolutions does little at all for the steam...the holes are much too small for more than a small valve opening to make a difference. With a 4 hole, if I opened it half a turn or more, it would deplete itself way too fast, and I'd lose control of the milk. Maybe the APs valves are different, but I'd assume they're largely the same.
We also may want to explore why your hands are wet when steaming milk?! You're supposed to feel the OUTSIDE of the pitcher for temp, not the INSIDE ;) Seriously, though, I dry my hands after any rinsing with my cloth...I can't imagine I'd change that process with joysticks or non.
I do like the lever/joystick idea, and there's definitive convenience to it...I think the bulk of the convenience is if making a LOT of drinks so your wrists aren't sore from the rotary action. Otherwise, for a few drinks today, giving a knob a quarter turn's crank, or flicking a toggle is really dead even. Which one may be more fun to use though, I'd rather not speculate ;)
Just trying to get an idea of how much longer these are. The valve looks longer, as well as the arm / handle sticking out the end. So, are they 2" longer than the standard valve / knob, or 3-4"
Also, based on the photos, it looks like the steam and water arms exit the valve further away from the body of the machine, and a bit lower on the valve. This might work out a little better for us by allowing my wife to have a better view of things while she is steaming milk.
Take a look at this picture. These look like the extend out close to the end of the drip tray.
JoshMcBride Senior Member Joined: 6 Jan 2011 Posts: 12 Location: Mississauga, Ontario Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia V2 Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Thu Jan 6, 2011, 4:31pm Subject: Re: Chris Coffee's new Joystick steam and hot water arms...
robca Said:
I very recently got my BZ07, and I was mildly worried about the steam wand "joystick" controls, and I only used the rotary ones before. I love it, actually :-).
We have one of these at our store and I've used the joystick control. LOVE IT. They stay on when in the UP position, but when you pull it down you have full control and turns off if you let it go.
This is with the Bz0z not the Ventrano, our anitas have hand turned nozzels, I wonder if the Anita's will go the way of the joystick?
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