Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
Rocket R58 Double Boiler
Rocket Espresso R58 Double Boiler -  Everything you need for the perfect shot!
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > apples & oranges...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 8 of 9 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Mar 7, 2011, 7:38am
Subject: Re: apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
 

Dennis.
On your new thread I offered and I will echo here, I would be glad to help, let me know. OH BTW, see the new thread for a much more detailed answer.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
LisaKali
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Apr 2013
Posts: 1
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 11:15am
Subject: Re: apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
 

I own a Silvia V1 which has just died on me.  I am not a coffee-hardware geek, i just want a dependable first-shot that is ALWAYS hot.

I am considering a Rocket a replacement for this Silvia, which I now have to either replace with a V3 or fix.  The Rocket, however, does not come with a PID:  does anyone know why this is?  Is it (hopefully) because you can set the shot temperature somewhere on the unit and it is dependable?  Or, you cannot set the shot temp but the heat is always dependable anyway?

Again, I am considering a Rocket because thew Silvia does not work, and I thought that as long as I had to replace it I might as well choose something that solves the problems I have had all these years with this Rancilio machine.

Can the Rocket deliver great shots that are super hot, the first time?

Thank you!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 12:06pm
Subject: Re: apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
 

LisaKali Said:

I own a Silvia V1 which has just died on me.  I am not a coffee-hardware geek, i just want a dependable first-shot that is ALWAYS hot.

I am considering a Rocket a replacement for this Silvia, which I now have to either replace with a V3 or fix.  The Rocket, however, does not come with a PID:  does anyone know why this is?  Is it (hopefully) because you can set the shot temperature somewhere on the unit and it is dependable?  Or, you cannot set the shot temp but the heat is always dependable anyway?

Again, I am considering a Rocket because thew Silvia does not work, and I thought that as long as I had to replace it I might as well choose something that solves the problems I have had all these years with this Rancilio machine.

Can the Rocket deliver great shots that are super hot, the first time?

Thank you!

Posted September 12, 2013 link

The Rocket is a HX machine, not a SBDU so it does not need one! It is in a whole different class of machine than the Sylvia, a full step up. It will provide all and more than you have ever had with Sylvia and it will be easier to achieve and be consistent with.

It is possible that the electronics of a PID will outlast the mechanical Pstat that is on nearly every HX machine. Honestly, the commercial Sarai Pstat will last for decades, mine has YMMV!

To adjust temp on a HX, you flush a little longer or shorter. When you get in the rythem, it is very consistent and easy to reproduce. Honestly, I can not taste a deg F or two difference and I have tasted a LOT of coffee. The only other thing that a PID (really it is the SSR) will help with is that the Pstat will give a soft click on and off, about every minute. If that does not bother you, then there is little advantage to add the cost to a HX machine.

To understand the HX PLEASE read. http://www.home-barista.com/hx-love.html  there is a lot of information there and it will help you to understand the HX system.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
MJW
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 3:40pm
Subject: Re: apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
 

LisaKali Said:

I own a Silvia V1 which has just died on me.  I am not a coffee-hardware geek, i just want a dependable first-shot that is ALWAYS hot.

Posted September 12, 2013 link

I have seen more than one complaint about HX machines, that the first shot is a "sink shot".  However, you could pull a blank first, and then the water path is more likely to be ready.  Part of the problem you're encountering, is due to the complexity of the machine.  The Silvia and many other machines have detached groups meaning the group must be warmed by water flow.

Expensive machines have recognized the need to keep the group warm and use thermosiphoning or "saturated" groups.  But these expensive machines are not designed to warm up well from cold.  You're best off to pull a blank shot first after it warms up.

Simpler, less expensive machines like the Lelit PL041, or the Ascaso Arc, or even Breville 900 (which is not as simple), are going to be a lot better under "first shot" circumstances, because the group is attached to the boiler.  The Breville will also warm up faster.

The Breville 900 uses full electronic temperature control and is stable as a rock.  The Lelit is also available with PID.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,391
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 4:29pm
Subject: Re: apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
 

MJW Said:

I have seen more than one complaint about HX machines, that the first shot is a "sink shot".

Posted September 12, 2013 link

Never in the past 7-8 years have my first shots on my (various) HX machines been a "sink shot."  Indeed I can't remember the last time I pulled a sink shot -- not even when dialing in an unfamiliar bean! -- except for one time about six weeks ago when I came back from a business trip and used what I knew were stale beans . . . I knew better but I was desperate, and one sip and the rest went down the drain!

MJW Said:

However, you could pull a blank first, and then the water path is more likely to be ready.

Posted September 12, 2013 link

Every HX requires a cooling flush.  Most SBDU's and DB's require a warming flush . . . c'est la mÍme chose.

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
MJW
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 8:43pm
Subject: Re: apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Never in the past 7-8 years have my first shots on my (various) HX machines been a "sink shot."

Posted September 12, 2013 link

Yes I was puzzled to learn of this phenomenon on HB.  You can learn about it here:

Click Here (www.home-barista.com)

It seems reasonable that keeping the group clean and doing some minimal flushing would get the machine in a perfect state.

As you say, it's critical on Silvia to do a warming flush, the water is what gets the group up to temperature.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
PeterWWbeagle
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 70
Location: Denver
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Anita,CMA...
Grinder: Super Jolly, Mini, Macap
Vac Pot: Aeropress
Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 9:11pm
Subject: Re: apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Never in the past 7-8 years have my first shots on my (various) HX machines been a "sink shot."  


Every HX requires a cooling flush.  Most SBDU's and DB's require a warming flush . . . c'est la mÍme chose.

Posted September 12, 2013 link

+1 Jason.   thank you for correcting the misinformation posted above about HX machines..  As Wayne said, you need to know your machine, pay attention and keep your eyes and ears open. it's not rocket science.   I taught my wife the cooling flush in 15 minutes, perhaps because she wants good coffee and is willing to invest some time and a little thinking.  

I dare say that most complaints about HX (or any machine for that matter) come from user error or not wanting to understand what the machine was built for.  I am sure it pisses off many newbies that after buying a $2k QM or Rocket,  you still have to use your brain to make great espresso.  and if you do not pay attention, you will get sludge.  

I fully understand many rightfully do not want to take the time to learn an HX or semi auto machine but want instant espresso.  There are plenty push the button super automatics.  or nespresso.  to each their own.  

TO the OP:  getting a hot first shot is easy.  get a timer.  $10 at Harbor freight for 15 amp electronic.  my machines come on at 5 and are perfect at 7 am.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
MJW
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 9:21pm
Subject: Re: apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
 

PeterWWbeagle Said:

+1 Jason.   thank you for correcting the misinformation posted above about HX machines.

Posted September 12, 2013 link

What precisely was the misinformation?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013, 7:19am
Subject: Re: apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
 

The misinformation is that the first shot on a HX is a sink shot.

I have the same history as Jason and a WHOLE lot of other folks, the first shot is as good as the rest and all are excellent.

I went to your link and the crux of the issue is it seems that some people do not keep their machine CLEAN and need to, in their words, "mix the old oils with the new oils" it has nothing to do with machine design and everything to do with cleaning.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
ddubick
Senior Member


Joined: 1 May 2012
Posts: 146
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Appia 1Gr
Grinder: OE Pharos, Macap M5, Nuova...
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013, 9:32am
Subject: Re: apples & oranges - rancilio silvia vs rocket giotto
 

And if that was the case it's not like only HX's would have that issue.  All machines have a grouphead and a shower screen that need to be kept clean.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 8 of 9 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > apples & oranges...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Craft Roasted Coffee
Some days you make the coffee. Other days the coffee makes you.
bit.ly/craftroasting-ks
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.449390172958)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+