openhelix Senior Member Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 14 Location: Santa Clara,CA Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Mon Feb 21, 2011, 1:52pm Subject: Quickmill Silvano versus Anita
I know these are two completely different machines. Has anyone else taken a look at these to compare? Here's what I see as the pros/cons to each but I might be way off. My experience amounts to a couple years "self learning" pulling shots behind a bar (alcohol, not coffee bar) with no formal instruction. Thankfully I now live near Barefoot so I've picked up a bit of knowledge from them but still fairly noob-ish compared to most people here.
Silvano Pros
Less expensive than the Anita
separate pumps for boiler and thermoblock
separate boiler and thermoblock allow pulling shots and working milk at the same time
looks pretty (important to SWMBO)
PID and no temp surfing/flushing required
Cons
hybrid design (not a true SBDU, HX or DB) may mean a different technique and less folks with experience to learn from
Almost in the price range of an HX machine
Not quite as good steaming as some other machines (though the current video looks pretty good)
Anita Pros
True HX design (well defined process with minimal tweaking)
hot water arms (don't drink americanos much, but occasionally)
e61 group (easy replacement parts, proven design)
Pretty (SWMBO and IMO prettier than the SIlvano)
BIG 1400W heating element
2 full portafilter setups
Cons
MUCH more expensive (a big deal)
Won't use hot water arm much
Need to flush before pulling a shot
I'm having a hard time justifying the Anita is 1.5x as good at the Silvano and the result (coffee/experience) will be 1.5x better. The law of diminishing returns seems to hit hard in the espresso world and while I want great coffee I also want value. I'll be pairing this with a Vario grinder and a mix of beans.
Posted Mon Feb 21, 2011, 6:10pm Subject: Re: Quickmill Silvano versus Anita
To me PID is a big plus. It make life that much easier. I try a new coffee the other day, when brew at 200 degree it taste so-so and I raise the temp to 202 the shots are very different and much better. If you need to froth milk often then Anita may be better. If not, Silvano should make you happy.
Logicafe Senior Member Joined: 2 Oct 2008 Posts: 68 Location: Columbus, Ohio USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Silvano, Gaggia, Solis Grinder: Cimbali Max Hybrid, Rocky Vac Pot: Krups Moka Brew Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Mon Feb 21, 2011, 7:36pm Subject: Re: Quickmill Silvano versus Anita
I have had my Silvano now for about 4 months and really enjoy it. The PID takes the guess work out of temp surfing. Yes, the thermoblock for steaming may be a deal breaker for some but I don't use it. I really like filling up the water reservoir on the side, all it takes is pulling it out a little and pour in more water. I was also able to get the $795 deal from Chris's Coffee so that made it that more enjoyable. Enjoy your purchase, what ever it may be.
symbology Senior Member Joined: 27 Oct 2010 Posts: 69 Location: Los Angeles Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale S1V2 Grinder: Macap M7D
Posted Mon Feb 21, 2011, 8:06pm Subject: Re: Quickmill Silvano versus Anita
Need more info from you.
What are your plans for the machine? Few milk drinks, many milk drinks, how many per day etc..... Will you be working with Soy milk at all?
If you are not going to be making a lot of milk drinks, and will not be using Soy milk........ then the Silvano is a great choice. Yes, the steaming is a tad weak, but with a little practice it works pretty darn well. Just do not plan on steaming up more than 6oz at a time, and do not plan to steam Soy. It is too thick and heavy for the Silvano. (not that Soy is great for creating microfoam anyway)
My wife drinks Soy milk and this is probably the biggest reason why I got rid of my Silvano. I could get "latte art" quality microfoam while using 2%, or whole milk, but Soy would just foam up, and the bubbles would never incorporate with the milk. So, I would end up with a mixture of milk and thick foam. With the Andreja and Mini Vivaldi II, this is not a problem due to the sheer steaming power of both machines. It is not latte art quality, but at least it is microfoamish and the foam is incorporated through the milk.
I tried an Andreja, but I did not like having to flush a large amount of water to get the group and HX to the proper temps. If it was plumbed in, this would be less of a problem. If I did not have overhead cabinets, it would be less of a problem because water tank refills would have been much easier. (had to pull the machine out 1-2 times a day just to refill the water tank). I now own a Mini Vivaldi II and it suits me very, very well. I lowered my water usage, though it has a front load tank, and I no longer have to "work" to get to the correct temp. (Not that you would even know for sure what temp you are at unless you spend more $ and get a group head thermometer (search for "erics thermometer") and possible a scace to get things figured out.
With the Silvano and the PID the temperature will be one aspect of your extraction that you don't have to worry about (as far as was it too hot, too cold, did not flush enough, flushed too little.) With the Silvano, the temp will be what ever it is set to. Easily adjustable and easy to get the same water temp every time. There is nothing wrong with an HX, but for the less skilled Barista, I think having a machine with consistent water temps is HUGE.
If the newest version of the Silvano has improved steaming abilities it is a no brainer IMO. ( I still would not expect great steaming, but any improvement would be great)
randytsuch Senior Member Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 578 Location: LA, Ca Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office with... Grinder: Baratza Vario Roaster: Customized Alpenrost,...
Posted Tue Feb 22, 2011, 8:19pm Subject: Re: Quickmill Silvano versus Anita
Not to confuse you, but there are other choices for an HX machine
Bezzera makes a couple machines cheaper then the Anita, the BZ02 and BZ07
Right now, if I upgraded machines, it would be an Salvatore SES, in a close race over the BZ07. The Silvano was great for $800, I'm not sure it makes as much sense at $1000.
openhelix Senior Member Joined: 24 Dec 2010 Posts: 14 Location: Santa Clara,CA Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Tue Feb 22, 2011, 11:21pm Subject: Re: Quickmill Silvano versus Anita
symbology Said:
Need more info from you.
What are your plans for the machine? Few milk drinks, many milk drinks, how many per day etc..... Will you be working with Soy milk at all?
If you are not going to be making a lot of milk drinks, and will not be using Soy milk........ then the Silvano is a great choice. Yes, the steaming is a tad weak, but with a little practice it works pretty darn well. Just do not plan on steaming up more than 6oz at a time, and do not plan to steam Soy. It is too thick and heavy for the Silvano. (not that Soy is great for creating microfoam anyway)
My wife drinks Soy milk and this is probably the biggest reason why I got rid of my Silvano. I could get "latte art" quality microfoam while using 2%, or whole milk, but Soy would just foam up, and the bubbles would never incorporate with the milk. So, I would end up with a mixture of milk and thick foam. With the Andreja and Mini Vivaldi II, this is not a problem due to the sheer steaming power of both machines. It is not latte art quality, but at least it is microfoamish and the foam is incorporated through the milk.
I tried an Andreja, but I did not like having to flush a large amount of water to get the group and HX to the proper temps. If it was plumbed in, this would be less of a problem. If I did not have overhead cabinets, it would be less of a problem because water tank refills would have been much easier. (had to pull the machine out 1-2 times a day just to refill the water tank). I now own a Mini Vivaldi II and it suits me very, very well. I lowered my water usage, though it has a front load tank, and I no longer have to "work" to get to the correct temp. (Not that you would even know for sure what temp you are at unless you spend more $ and get a group head thermometer (search for "erics thermometer") and possible a scace to get things figured out.
With the Silvano and the PID the temperature will be one aspect of your extraction that you don't have to worry about (as far as was it too hot, too cold, did not flush enough, flushed too little.) With the Silvano, the temp will be what ever it is set to. Easily adjustable and easy to get the same water temp every time. There is nothing wrong with an HX, but for the less skilled Barista, I think having a machine with consistent water temps is HUGE.
If the newest version of the Silvano has improved steaming abilities it is a no brainer IMO. ( I still would not expect great steaming, but any improvement would be great)
Probably 3-4 double shots per day, 1 milk drink per day (if that). Maybe 1.5-2x that on the weekends.
randytsuch Said:
Not to confuse you, but there are other choices for an HX machine
Bezzera makes a couple machines cheaper then the Anita, the BZ02 and BZ07
Right now, if I upgraded machines, it would be an Salvatore SES, in a close race over the BZ07. The Silvano was great for $800, I'm not sure it makes as much sense at $1000.
iammiguel Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 34 Location: GTA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: yes please
Posted Fri Nov 25, 2011, 12:32pm Subject: Re: Quickmill Silvano versus Anita
i'm in your shoes right now. the bz07 is an hx for very close to silvano but it is not atractive to me. the silvano looks like a chrome brick but still looks better i think. i drink 70% straight shots and the rest lattes. i was leaning to the silvano because of ericbnc's reasons but at the store i went to they threw me a curveball and mentioned th bezzera.
Posted Fri Nov 25, 2011, 9:09pm Subject: Re: Quickmill Silvano versus Anita
randytsuch Said:
Not to confuse you, but there are other choices for an HX machine
Bezzera makes a couple machines cheaper then the Anita, the BZ02 and BZ07
Right now, if I upgraded machines, it would be an Salvatore SES, in a close race over the BZ07. The Silvano was great for $800, I'm not sure it makes as much sense at $1000.
+1, there are indeed other machines. I just pointed out in another thread that the Fiorenzato Bricoletta might be a posible alternative. IMO, it has a couple pro's and con's when compared to the Anita, with each machine having a feature or two that the other lacks, but at $1259 it's an easy choice over the Anita. My Bric is almost 8 years old, I've had it turned on 24/7 for the last 3 years and before that it was used in a restaurant. I just tore it apart to replace the O-rings in the E-61 group and it looks like it's never been apart before. Additionally, all the major components appear to be original so it may have been up and running for over 7 years with nothing but the occasional descalling and group gasket. I an very happy with every aspect of my Bric and would suggest that anyone looking to spend under $1500 on a machine take a good look at one. Heck, considering what some of it's competition is selling for, make that "anyone looking to spend under $1800."
Posted Fri Nov 25, 2011, 9:38pm Subject: Re: Quickmill Silvano versus Anita
Bric is 1900 watts - need a 20 amp circuit for that - plus it is overkill for a couple shots a day. I could have gone Wega if I wanted for the price of your Bric - same reason I didn't go Wega is why I wouldn't go Bric. Don't get me wrong, it looks nice and I am sure it will make good espresso, but unless you leave it on 24/7 (any small children? potential for burns there...) the waiting time to heat up is going to be longer than I would care for in the morning and the power bill difference over 7 years time would make the Silvano about half the price of ownership of the Bric.
Not every situation is the same and what is practical in one setting might not make sense in another.
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
I have owned Silvano for several months and am very pleased with the unit. The machine is well built and nice to look at. Do not, however, plan to make several cups quickly. Need to allow a few seconds for steam and water to heat up.
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