Posted Mon Feb 28, 2011, 12:25am Subject: Re: Help me buy a decent espresso machine, please!
justpete Said:
I accept that I won't be making great espresso w/o a grinder... what I'm trying to get to is the next level beyond what the Breville offers, and I don't think that would take much. However, with that said, what would be the price range for an introductory DB or HX machine? And also, I am keeping an open mind and will get a grinder if I feel it's absolutely necessary.
We typically only make espresso's twice a week, on the weekends in the morning.
Over $1,000. And they'll be larger. I can't imagine spending that much without having a good grinder. But if you're only using it on the weekends, maybe 2 hand grinders isn't nuts after all. And if aesthetics are important, do I have a link for you... drool over these VINTAGE BEAUTIES. My KyM is in there somewhere. None of these sold for more than $100.
So little, in fact, that a good grinder and depressurizing the portafilter probably gets you there.
justpete Said:
However, with that said, what would be the price range for an introductory DB or HX machine? And also, I am keeping an open mind and will get a grinder if I feel it's absolutely necessary.
just curious as to what the next level would dictate, and what might some models be? I admit that I don't like the idea of having to wait for the machine to heat up/cool down before being able to make the next espresso.
A Ponte Vecchio Export takes up a very small amount of counter space, allows simultaneous steam and brew, but absolutely requires a good grinder (just like any other significant upgrade from the Breville). Spring lever machines aren't compatible with everyone, however.
One of the Gaggia machines might suit your needs. I haven't used them, but one of the guys at work swears by his. (Yes, he has a grinder with it.)
What kind of drinks do you want to make? How many, how quickly? These are the questions that help you figure out which kind of hot-water system fits best.
Also, sorry for not posting the link properly earlier. It was an oversight, not an intentional snub.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Feb 28, 2011, 8:02am Subject: Re: Help me buy a decent espresso machine, please!
Slowly, Peter -- like pulling teeth -- we get additional and relevant information each time you post . . .
Seriously.
We now know: -- you want to make good espresso; -- you need to steam milk; -- you only make espresso on Saturday and Sunday (so, what do you do during the week?)
The standard questions we ask, Peter, when someone wants information, are Q1) What type of drinks do your like? Q2) How many drinks, on average, do you need to make at any one time? Q3) How many drinks, on average, do you make in any given week? Q4) What is your budget, and does that include a grinder?
A1) You have been focusing on "espresso" but you keep mentioning steam, too, so can we presume you are making milk drinks? or are you drinking straight shots? A2) We now know the answer is "two." (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) A3) We now know the answer is "four." (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) A4) $800; no grinder . . . . (Well, you know what we all think of that.)
Personally, I'd save your money. I would look at a Gaggia Classic ($349, but it's a US vendor; I don't know if the Classic is available in Canada), or the Le'Lit PL41EM ($499.95 CDN). These are both SDBU machines, but for as little as you appear to use the machine, I'd honestly save the $$$ and go this direction. I used a Gaggia for 25+ years, and as long as I wasn't making more than one or two milk drinks at a time . . . the delay can be frustrating if you want to sit down and drink your lattes together, but it's fine if you make one for your SO and bring it to them in bed, then make your own.
For an entry-level HX machine, a Bezzera BZ07 runs $1,299.95 CDN. The Bezzera BZ99 is only $1,149 CDN, but I am not familiar with it.
If all you're doing is drinking straight shots, an SBDU is fine. But if you need to steam milk, that is when the delays come in as you wait for the boiler to adjust back-and-forth and stabilize from brew temp to steam temp to brew temp to steam temp, etc., etc., etc.
Also, if you are indeed only making two drinks a day, and only on Saturday and Sunday, then getting two hand-grinders (one for regular, one for decaf) isn't a bad solution at all. You can get a Hario or Kyocera hand-grinder for less than $50 CDN.
Perhaps I can de-pressurize the portafilter until I decide on a new one. Is this related to the horrid noise that the Breville makes? The 'jerking' that I'm hearing?
wbaguhn Said:
What kind of drinks do you want to make? How many, how quickly? These are the questions that help you figure out which kind of hot-water system fits best.
Just curious, do you think your snotty attitude makes it more likely or less likely that you will be treated with respect here? As far as the most annoying forum in the history of the internet, you obviously don't get around much. Some of the sports forums would already have you walking funny. These guys are giving you good advice, BTW.
Personally, with your budget I'd buy one of these:
Without a good grinder and fresh beans you won't be able to tell the difference between what you get from this and what you would get from a more expensive machine since the coffee will be your limiting factor. Down the road when you finally get a good grinder, then your machine will be the limiting factor and you will want to upgrade the machine at that time.
justpete Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Toronto Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Feb 28, 2011, 11:20am Subject: Re: Help me buy a decent espresso machine, please!
laservet Said:
Just curious, do you think your snotty attitude makes it more likely or less likely that you will be treated with respect here? As far as the most annoying forum in the history of the internet, you obviously don't get around much. Some of the sports forums would already have you walking funny. These guys are giving you good advice, BTW.
Personally, with your budget I'd buy one of these:
Without a good grinder and fresh beans you won't be able to tell the difference between what you get from this and what you would get from a more expensive machine since the coffee will be your limiting factor. Down the road when you finally get a good grinder, then your machine will be the limiting factor and you will want to upgrade the machine at that time.
Now they are, but that took a while. And btw, I've probably been "on the internet" longer than you've known it's existed, in all seriousness. I only say that because that's the second time someone has suggested "I haven't been around much" - and lastly, my "snotty" attitude was reciprocal to the attitude(s) first displayed in this thread - that is all.
Given that I need to grind two types of beans, are there many grinders that provide for a second hopper as an accessory? Or perhaps I would just order the part?
One thing I've learned after being on the internet for so long - if you ignore the trolls, they'll go away.
Posted Mon Feb 28, 2011, 11:36am Subject: Re: Help me buy a decent espresso machine, please!
laservet Said:
Just curious, do you think your snotty attitude makes it more likely or less likely that you will be treated with respect here? As far as the most annoying forum in the history of the internet, you obviously don't get around much. Some of the sports forums would already have you walking funny. These guys are giving you good advice, BTW.
Personally, with your budget I'd buy one of these:
Without a good grinder and fresh beans you won't be able to tell the difference between what you get from this and what you would get from a more expensive machine since the coffee will be your limiting factor. Down the road when you finally get a good grinder, then your machine will be the limiting factor and you will want to upgrade the machine at that time.
+ 1,000,000 and then some. I visit a body building forum just to read the latest flames thrown out to a regrettable soul that either loves the abuse or just does not get it. That member posts the exact same idiotic questions there that he posts here and on H-B. The tone and inferences to illegal and immoral crimes against nature they suggest he commit on himself or his family are stock responses by now. They make us look like a Sunday school class by comparison.
To the OP: Get out of bed on the weekend and drive/walk to a coffee shop so you can get your drink and the other person can get theirs. No grinder required.
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
justpete Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2011 Posts: 34 Location: Toronto Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Feb 28, 2011, 11:42am Subject: Re: Help me buy a decent espresso machine, please!
EricBNC Said:
+ 1,000,000 and then some. I visit a body building forum just to read the latest flames thrown out to a regrettable soul that either loves the abuse or just does not get it. That member posts the exact same idiotic questions there that he posts here and on H-B. The tone and inferences to illegal and immoral crimes against nature they suggest he commit on himself or his family are stock responses by now. They make us look like a Sunday school class by comparison.
To the OP: Get out of bed on the weekend and drive/walk to a coffee shop so you can get your drink and the other person can get theirs. No grinder required.
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