jason26 Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2008 Posts: 11 Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Aug 17, 2010, 12:51pm Subject: Bezzera BZ 07 - Anything I should be aware of?
I just got the wife approval for a Bezzera BZ 07 (with PID likely) in the kitchen. Finding an HX that fit in size wise was hard, and this seems to be the best option. I'll be pairing it with a Vario grinder.
Are there any quirks that I should be aware of before pulling the trigger? I'm currently been using a "new" Gaggia Baby with a Virtuoso grinder, and its pretty much a no brainer in terms of operation. I'm hoping to get away from temp. surfing and the wait between brew and steam, plus the ability to do more back to back milk drinks.
tedegreene Senior Member Joined: 4 Oct 2005 Posts: 164 Location: JACKSONVILLE
Espresso: Bezzera BZ40 Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Tue Aug 17, 2010, 3:38pm Subject: Be aware that caffeine can disrupt sleep patterns.
I don’t actually have the BZ07 but its big brother the BZ40 that uses pretty much the same design in the HX chamber. Generally speaking, a PID is wasted technology on a HX and especially on a Bezzera, the temperature in the exchange vessel and brew path will be more dependent on your techniques than on the absolute temperature in the main boiler.
The BZs have a heat exchange chamber rather than a simple tube like others and no matter how pin-point accurate the main boiler temp is the temp in the HX chamber will be dependent on if and how you flush and how fast the flow thru any given puck is. However, the temp. will be the same time after time once you establish a routine and surfing on a Bezzera is completely intuitive with just a little practice. The machine is so temperature stable and will recover so fast surfing won’t be the burden you imagine or have experienced with the Gaggia.
Don’t bother with a thermometer just let your tongue be your test instrument. With your portafilter packed and ready hit the brew button and count one-Mississippi, two-Mississippi AFTER the water quits hissing and flashing to steam from the group head then lock and pull your shot. If the shot is bitter, flush to three-Mississippi next time, it it’s sour flush to one-Mississippi. Either way, once you know which Mississippi works with the coffee and grind you are using today it will be the same Mississippi every time.
Don't even think about using a PID to bring the main boiler temp down to the brew temp point or you will have the equivalent of a single boiler with a very slow recovery period. Your Gaggia will work better. With or without the PID it won't matter if the temp in the main boiler is 250, 245 or just 240 because you will still have to do the Mississippi thing to get it from the 245 degree (plus or minus 5 degrees) to the 200 degree range needed for brewing. That's why you start counting after the water quits flashing to steam (at 212 degrees) so you have a known starting point no matter how hot the boiler is in its duty cycle. It will always be hotter than desired for brewing. That's the beauty of a Bezzera HX ,always ready to go yet absolutely predictable once it's fully warmed up.
Even with a double boiler, playing with a PID would drive me crazy, make an adjustment, wait 5 minutes for things to settle down then try again with another 5 minute wait if things aren’t just right (and they never are) no thanks, I just add or subtract a Mississippi and go as fast as I can and never outrun the machine or have to wait for it to settle down.
There won’t be ANY wait between brew and steam, do both at the same time then do it again over and over as fast as you can, the machine will be ready for one-Mississippi well before you can refill the milk pitcher, clean & dry the basket, grind, distribute and tamp the next dose. You never use all the hot water in the HX chamber so it will be ready to go again in seconds rather than minutes.
bas Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2011 Posts: 7 Location: The Netherlands Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PID Grinder: Mahlkonig vario II Drip: Aeropress/Chemex
Posted Wed Jun 8, 2011, 2:10am Subject: Re: Be aware that caffeine can disrupt sleep patterns.
My Bezzera BZ07 PID runns quite hot. I've to flush for about 8 seconds before the flash boil ends. For a typical 198-200 degrees Fahrenheit shot I need to flush for at least 5 seconds past flash boil as measured with my calibrated and sensitive thermocouple. The flush needs to be that long I think because the group head is relatively hot and by flushing it's even warmed up in the beginning. If the machine hasn't been on for a couple of hours and in cooler days the water in the container is cooler and the flush length seems a couple of seconds shorter.
Does hat make sense? If so that makes it difficult to predict temperature. If the water is relatively cold in the container flushing 5 seconds after flash boiler may be too much bringing temperature down too far.
What do you thinks of this?
Maybe Bezzera should install a cooler group head thermostat to avoid running hot. The flush could be used to warm up the group head and cool down the HX.
Posted Thu Jun 9, 2011, 12:29am Subject: Some questions
Hi
I'm also looking at getting the bz07, but I still have a few questions:
I want the ability to updose and pull ristrettos. It seems that Bezzeras have a low shower screen and don't do well with updosing. Is this a severe limitation? Is there a way to work around this?
The bz07 doesn't pre-infuse. Is this machine going to relentlessly exploit every single prep mistake?
Is the brew pressure adjustable?
A bit about me: I'm an avid vacpot brewer based in Japan, and I have no experience in making espresso. Still trying to learn as much as I can. This forum and hb have been a huge help.
Posted Thu Jun 9, 2011, 11:25am Subject: Re: Some questions
1) Updosing and making ristrettos are two independent issues. My Elektra Semiautomatica has a similar dislike of doubles dosed higher than around 16.5gm. The solution is simple; get a basket that can hold more coffee without crowding the grouphead screen. I picked up an 18gm VST basket and can comfortably brew an 18gm double with it. I have never really enjoyed 20-22gm power shots, but if you want to dose more than +/- 18gm, get the VST 21gm basket. So no, I don't think it's a limitation at all with the Bezzera.
2) Preinfusion is not a big deal with a vibe pump. It does not deliver its max pressure immediately like a rotary pump. So no, I don' t think it's a problem (at least it is not at all on my Elektra).
3) I don't know if brew pressure is adjustable. It's not on my Elektra, and I don't miss it. My machine before the Semiautomatica was a BrewtusII, and while I loved the Brewtus, I am getting better coffee from the Elektra despite its lack of pressure adjustment or preinfusion.
Read as much as you can about the Bezzera. From what I have read, its shots are much like the Elektra's. The e61 group is very forgiving with its preinfusion, but it can be characterized as delivering shots that are deeper and not as clear as what you can get from the Bezzera or Elektra groups. While none of these groups are really easier or better tasting for all consumers than the other, go with the group that has strengths in the areas that interest you more. With the access we now have to high quality blends and single origin coffees, I think the Bezzera group is a great choice to further an interest in exploring coffees.
the OPV is adjustable! I've lowered my setting from 13 bar to 10 bar against a blind filter (going lower than 9,5 bar results in leaking because the OPV is opened too much). doesn't have any effect taste wise, but the puck surface is less disturbed after a shot and it's less prone to channeling...
it's a nice machine! I had an E61 before and although the Bezzera is less forgiving a like it more...and with a good grinder and some practice it's an easy machine to operate as long a you are not updosing...
for me the only minor disadvantage is the pretty long flush required if you prefer cooler <200 Fahrenheit shots...about 4-5 oz or 12-15 seconds before every shot...as the HX chamber is pretty small the machine is back to baseline within a minute...so the cooling flush is the same every time...
that means you can flush by volume or by counting and use the same volume every time....
if you mainly to make tight and concentrated ristretto's you can better go for an E61 in my opinion...the Bezzi prefers elegant shots and clarity over body!
kaffemi Senior Member Joined: 30 May 2011 Posts: 3 Location: Helsinki, Finland Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Bezzera BZ10 Grinder: Mahlkönig Vario
Posted Wed Jun 15, 2011, 2:36am Subject: Re: Some questions
bas Said:
the OPV is adjustable! I've lowered my setting from 13 bar to 10 bar against a blind filter (going lower than 9,5 bar results in leaking because the OPV is opened too much). doesn't have any effect taste wise, but the puck surface is less disturbed after a shot and it's less prone to channeling...
it's a nice machine! I had an E61 before and although the Bezzera is less forgiving a like it more...and with a good grinder and some practice it's an easy machine to operate as long a you are not updosing...
for me the only minor disadvantage is the pretty long flush required if you prefer cooler <200 Fahrenheit shots...about 4-5 oz or 12-15 seconds before every shot...as the HX chamber is pretty small the machine is back to baseline within a minute...so the cooling flush is the same every time...
that means you can flush by volume or by counting and use the same volume every time....
if you mainly to make tight and concentrated ristretto's you can better go for an E61 in my opinion...the Bezzi prefers elegant shots and clarity over body!
Hi bas! Could you give some advice for someone not so technical... I have BZ10 and would like to lower the pressure a bit. Simple question: how? :)
BZ10 is pretty much the same machine as BZ07, just looking slighly different. I liked the symmetric setup better, and got it for same price than BZ07 with dual gauge, so decision was easy. I'm very pleased with it. Before I had LaPavoni Europiccola and loved it too. Milk frothing is very much better with this one, naturally.
I also wondered if I should have an E61 machine or something else. I haven't ever owned an E61 machine, so cannot compare. BZ10 warms up really fast and that is a big plus for me.
Posted Fri Jun 17, 2011, 12:46am Subject: Re: Bezzera BZ 07 - Anything I should be aware of?
Bas, MarkPod, thank you for the info!
I have pulled the trigger, so to speak and ordered the bz07!
Looking forward to learning all there is. I read on HB that some people were having some issues with channeling. Has this been a big issue for any of you?
If you have any specific puck prep tips for getting a good shot, any advice would be great!
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