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Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Kitchen Aid Pro...

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MWGNYC
Senior Member

Joined: 2 Jun 2004
Posts: 1
Location: New York City
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 6:04am Subject: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

I have been eyeing the KitchenAid Espresso machine for some time. Williams Sonaoma has put it on sale 20% off (now $639.99) till Father's Day. Although I have considered the Rancilio Silvia and FF X3, I am still undecided. Does anyone have recent info about the KitchenAid Espresso maker? One concern I have is that the boilers are made of "food-grade aluminum" (I was told this by a KitchenAid customer service rep). Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks.

proton
Senior Member

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 124
Location: Northeast
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Rocky

Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 6:55am Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

dual boilers commercial-size chrome-plated brass brew group Click Here (www.coffeegeek.com) How about the Isomac Relax?

Rick
Senior Member

Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 765
Location: North Vancouver
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Mininova Inox Auto...
Grinder: Macap M4 stepped
Drip: Melitta #2 cone filter
Roaster: Stir-Crazy/Infinity Turbo...

Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 7:43am Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

I haven't seen a review of the machine by anyone who knows how to use an espresso machine. There is one review on CoffeeGeek, but I graded the review as "0" out of 10 because the reviewer either failed to mention important factors, or did not know how to use an espresso machine. If the machine is returnable, it may be worth a try. If KitchenAid has really produced a decent 2-boiler machine for that price, it would be an astonishing feat, but they DO know how to mass-produce appliances. I wish someone would do us all a favour by buying and testing one, and reporting on its capabilities. How about it? ;-) Rick

daktarz
Senior Member

Joined: 3 Jan 2004
Posts: 298
Location: Bay Area, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Rituale
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Drip: umm French Press?
Roaster: Does an outdoor smoker...

Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 7:55am Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

Williams Sonoma is a great store - I love buying from them. It's a failsafe purchase as they'll take it back if it doesn't satisfy. But I'm not sanguine about the KA being a "good" espresso machine. Williams Sonoma seems to be on board with KA and I have been quite happy with their large appliances but in the coffee realm they haven't inspired confidence. The retro Kitchen Aid grinder is impossible for espresso. The $200 KA Pro grinder which, as I've said in my review, isn't espresso ready nor is it worth $200. Given the price and size, I would be quite surprised if the unit proved acceptable. I'd like to be wrong - having an affordable espresso unit at that price point would be very nice - but I'll believe it when I see it. WS appears to put the bulk of its sales effort into the super-autos, at least in the stores I've been in.

buzz_me
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Nov 2003
Posts: 36
Location: Tyler
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Rocky -- "Yo Silvia..."
Vac Pot: Nada
Drip: Nope
Roaster: Not Yet

Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 12:11pm Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

I recently looked at one while touring the store - I seem to never spend money there, but love to get ideas - and the first thing I noticed was the non commercial portafilter. If memory serves me, it looked like a portafilter from a Barista... definately not a 52mm size. It has been a few months since I looked at it, so correct me if I'm mistaken...

barjohn
Senior Member

Joined: 1 May 2004
Posts: 135
Location: Riverside, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi
Grinder: Mazer Mini Electronic

Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 7:26pm Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

I tried one very briefly as a real newbie so please temper my comments accordingly. The PF is 58MM but not standard in the ears so you can't take a standard 58 MM and put it in the group, I tried. Nor will the PF fit into a standard E61 group. At least i could not get it to fit properly. I did not have a grinder at the time so I only used the Illy pods I purchased at WS. I thought the taste was ok, not great but not as bad as a superauto. However, it was not very hot. I think the temperature setting in the green is not hot enough or to be honest maybe it was my fault for not shooting several blank shots first. The steamer has one of those aereator tips and when you remove the tip from the wand you no longer have a wand. The tip is the longest part of the wand. It makes foam but not microfoam like my S1. Don't get me wrong, for many consumers it will be a significant step up from a superauto in taste and foaming ability. The dual boiler and dual gauge is a nice feature in its price range. It does not appear to be easy to open and tweak. The water reservior is adequate and slides from side to side to refil without moving the machine from the splash guard on the counter. I returned mine rather quickly as I didn't want to take a chance on getting stuck with it (I was not sure about WS's return policy at the time). WS was great to deal with so I would reccomend that an experienced user give it an honest try and review.

John Veritas en Trashitas

korngold
Senior Member

Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 634
Location: Des Moines, IA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Audrey
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Melitta Clarity
Roaster: WE Popcorn Pumper

Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 8:10pm Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

I'll admit I've not used the machine yet, but I have read that the boilers and the portafilters are made by Gaggia, which are 58mm, but "non-standard." So, you are basically getting a Gaggia Coffee or Classic (see comment below) with an extra boiler for steaming. The benefits to this: 1) Boilers are small and aluminum, therefore heat up much faster than an all-brass or copper boiler 2) Separate boilers allow for simultaneous steaming & brewing (but so does an HX machine) 3) PFs are interchangeable with Gaggia PFs, if replacements are needed (at least from what I understand) Drawbacks: 1) Boiler size is small, and capacity weak compared to Silvia and all HX machines, which may account for your espresso not being hot enough. Cool water pumped in is more likely to mix with the hot water going out with such a small boiler capacity 2) Aluminum boilers can corrode/pit over time and should probably not be subjected to typical decalcification chemicals, from what I've read. 3) Froth aid is Gaggia style, which allows you to easily get bubbly froth, but not microfoam. With plastic widget removed, frothing wand is short & cumbersome The question I've never seen asked or answered is: Does this machine have a solenoid/3-way valve? As I just bought a Silvia a while back, it doesn't matter to me, but it may be interesting to find out. For the price--even discounted to $600-some--you're better off buying an Expobar Pulser or similar HX model with large boiler & ability to steam & brew simultaneously. Brass hardware & fittings, brass (or copper?) boiler for longevity, actively heated E-61 style group, and standard 58mm portafilter. The KA pro-line coffee line seems to be an attempt to cater to society's elite. They think they are buying the "best machine you can buy for the home" but only shop at stores like WS, so don't really know. What they do know is that they can tell people they spent $700 or $800 on an espresso machine to really "wow" their friends. People who own this machine are probably the same ones who buy Lexus vehicles. :-) Get online, do some investigation, and you'll get yourself a better machine, and maybe even a better deal! This was just a friendly jab at anyone who can afford a car more expensive than my Honda Civic, since everyone knows that Lexus' are just Toyotas. :-)

barjohn
Senior Member

Joined: 1 May 2004
Posts: 135
Location: Riverside, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi
Grinder: Mazer Mini Electronic

Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 11:04pm Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

To answer your question, the unit does have a three way solenoid. The brew boiler is tiny and I share your concern aboult the longevity of aluminum. The only reviewer that has written a review has spoken of the lack of pump pressure. Since I only used it with PODs I can't verify or dispute that statement. Given that it is supposed to be capable of over 15 bar and is baskically a 42W vibe pump I tend to doubt that it is incapable. More than likely it was a grinder issue. However, I didn't have a grinder at the time to test that.

John Veritas en Trashitas

korngold
Senior Member

Posted Thu Jun 3, 2004, 7:30am Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

John, I agree--I think the reviewer was just grinding too fine, expecting that since it was a "good pump machine" it could handle any degree of grind. I was under the impression this was the reviewers' first "real" machine, and as such, the reviews were both severely lacking in useful content. Anyone can choke a good machine with a good grinder, but that doesn't mean the machine is at fault. It sounded like he also used conventional decalcifier in the aluminum boiler, which I've read is a no-no.

fbrick
Senior Member

Joined: 8 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Location: San Diego, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Elektra Micro Casa Leva
Grinder: La Cimbali Junior

Posted Mon Aug 9, 2004, 10:11pm Subject: Re: Kitchen Aid Pro Line Espresso Machine

I just bought the machine to try it out. My wife and I had some credit from WS from wedding registry and we decided to try it out after using a Capresso E8 SA and realizing we wanted a semi-auto. If we could spend our credit anywhere I expect we would be looking at an Isomac or higher end machine, but with the WS policy we figured it was worth a try. As stated before the machine is definitely Gaggia Classic parts with two boilers. I haven't used a classic before, but I opened the KA up and the pump and boiler are exactly as shown on Sweet Maria's site, also the group and PF and steam wand are the same. I looked over a coffee at a local shop to confirm this as well: http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.gaggia.shtml It's a great looking machine in my opinion and looks great in the kitchen. We've been trying it out the last few days. We don't have a good espresso grinder yet, so we've been experimenting with different blends ground from some local shops, and it seems like a solid and capable machines. We've pulled a few shots that we like so far, but without a good grinder it's tough to dial it in and have a real opinion of it. I read all the reviews of the Gaggia Classic and this machine seems to have similar quirks. The steam wand leakage that folks talk about is already happening on our machine, one bummer. I assume we can expect similar shot performance as the Classic......we'll see.

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