PeterWells Senior Member Joined: 25 Aug 2011 Posts: 19 Location: Brooklyn, NY Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Jura F7
Posted Thu Aug 25, 2011, 2:25pm Subject: A long-time lurker de-lurks, and asks the usual question (yet again!)
Hey CoffeeGeeks,
I've been reading this site for two years, and finally worked up my courage to register. I was just about to post a "wanted" and a "for sale" when I read the guides, and saw the note about being a Senior Member (3 months or more) before you can sell. Part of me says, "D'oh, I should have registered ages ago," but a wiser part says, "Use these three months to learn more."
So to the chase: I've owned a Jura Capresso F7 for five years, enjoying the convenience. But I lived a few months in Italy, a year in Paris, and now I live in New York, and my taste (and curiosity) for a great espresso has skyrocketed. The F7 is fully automatic, one-button ease, but I want to learn how to do it right. I want a semi-automatic!
The usual question: What semi-automatic is right for me?
I wasn't kidding, though, I've read huge swaths of CoffeeGeek reviews and tutorials and guides, so I can at least pare the question down a bit.
--I love ESPRESSO and espresso-derived beverages. No interest in drip or other methods. --A lifetime of super-automatic has given me no skills. But I'm eager to learn, so I'm hoping for a machine to teach and impress me. --I'm a renter (apartment), so plumbing in a machine is off the list: I need a pour-over. --Two people living together, think light use (how much espresso can two people drink in a day?). Totally home-use only. --Yes, I'll need a grinder, but I've read the guides here, and my budget will go 25-30% towards a VERY good grinder. --I'm not a handy fellow, and have no shop room, so I need a machine that requires little or no tinkering. --Not afraid of used equipment, if it's quality. --I LOVE GOOD TOOLS. I get attached to my tools, and want a friend for years.
So, the budget? I'm hoping to keep it under $1200. I figure $900+ for the machine, and $300+ for the grinder.
All that said, here's the real reason why I'm writing: I know what to look for in a machine, but I don't know precisely what I need. Double boiler? WAY too much (especially on American power lines). Single with a nice heat exchanger? Seems to make sense, but I suppose that's the high end. It's overwhelming, the number of choices and the combinations--which is why I've been lurking so long. Every time I free up some cash I want to dive in, but then a few day's reading CoffeeGeek and I run scared, not sure if I should just find the "best reviewed machine for the best price" or try to figure out what I *don't* need.
Can anyone help me?
MY GOAL: Sell my Jura Capresso F7 (or trade it) for a lovely ONE GROUP E61 home pro-sumer semi-automatic machine, either new or used-but-excellent. In a perfect world, I'll research another 3 months and then try to swap/buy/trade on CoffeeGeek Forums. After all, my F7 sill does fine every day, I'm not in a rush.
Thanks for putting up with the same old question yet again!
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Aug 25, 2011, 5:03pm Subject: Re: A long-time lurker de-lurks, and asks the usual question (yet again!)
Peter, congratulations for coming out of lurk mode, and an even BIGGER congratulations for (finally) wanting to get rid of your super auto. That said, let's cut to the chase!
PeterWells Said:
So, the budget? I'm hoping to keep it under $1200. I figure $900+ for the machine, and $300+ for the grinder.
You can spend $700 (and, hopefully much less) on an SBDU machine, or you can spend just over $1K on an HX machine. You cannot spend $900 on a new machine.
Posted Thu Aug 25, 2011, 5:28pm Subject: Re: A long-time lurker de-lurks, and asks the usual question (yet again!)
I will back up what Jason said.. more bluntly: It's a waste to buy an espresso machine for $900 (are there any?) unless you get a good deal on a used machine. Either spend more ($1100-1500) or a lot less (closer to half that much). You budget would make more sense if you said you wanted to spend $800 on a grinder and $400 on an espresso machine.
If you like good tools as you stated, get a HX (heat exchanger) model. You might get lucky and find a used Vibiemme Domobar Super for around $1100 or so (like the guy who bought mine a bout 4 weeks ago).
The advice on the Baratza Vario was excellent as well. In that price range nothing comes close, IMO.
Ergo, you certainly can spend that amount on a USED machine, but I -- for one -- would be cautious purchasing a used espresso machine. But that's me, and YMMV . . .
Posted Thu Aug 25, 2011, 6:50pm Subject: Re: A long-time lurker de-lurks, and asks the usual question (yet again!)
I did notice the word "new" in your reply - and you did an excellent job answering a question, unfortunately it was your own question and not the one the OP was asking.
Not trying to nit pick either though - and your new Bezzera link and suggestion is priced within spitting distance of the price the OP mentioned wanting to spend so it could end up being a very helpful post.
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 704 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Thu Aug 25, 2011, 7:19pm Subject: Re: A long-time lurker de-lurks, and asks the usual question (yet again!)
I went from Jura to my Duetto and Baratza Vario never missed a step and no regrets and I am sure you will to.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
Posted Fri Aug 26, 2011, 7:00am Subject: Re: A long-time lurker de-lurks, and asks the usual question (yet again!)
yes, used HX machines are available for that... believe me, I got Anita for $700... just have to scour the interwebs or catch CG at the right time. I went with the new Preciso, as finding a refurb or used one was just not happening... LOL... i did try though... :D All in all... my budget for everything was just a hair more than yours, but i prevailed and am a happy camper!
PeterWells Senior Member Joined: 25 Aug 2011 Posts: 19 Location: Brooklyn, NY Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Jura F7
Posted Mon Aug 29, 2011, 2:10pm Subject: Re: A long-time lurker de-lurks, and asks the usual question (yet again!)
Oh boy. Well, faced with advice like this (and it all sounds very reasonable), the only thing I can think to do is...raise my budget. ;)
So if I'm willing to go to $1200 (give or take) on a machine with HX, single group, E61, the usual, and up to about $400 on a grinder, that makes life a lot easier, doesn't it?
I admit, I'm scared of used equipment. You just don't know what you'll get.
So if you're me, and you're new, and willing to go up to a total of $1600 (plus or minus, I don't want to sweat the pennies), how does that broaden my options?
PeterWells Senior Member Joined: 25 Aug 2011 Posts: 19 Location: Brooklyn, NY Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Jura F7
Posted Tue Aug 30, 2011, 7:58am Subject: Re: A long-time lurker de-lurks, and asks the usual question (yet again!)
Hey Jason, you said this:
A full-auto features volumetric dosing, but can ALWAYS be operated exactly like a semi-auto. The comparable Bezzera BZ02 Semi Automatic Semi-Commercial Espresso Machine (Tank Model) (Item# BZ02S) is $1,049. Go figure!
Now, personally, I prefer the Bezzera BZ07 Semi Automatic Semi-Commercial Espresso Machine (Tank Model) (Item# BZ07spm), but it's $1,199.
I'm willing to go the extra $150 to the BZ07, but can you tell me the difference? It is purely cosmetic?
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