3-way valve (or maybe something with similar effect)
Solid build quality
Not too noisy
Not important at all:
I don't care about the steamer (milk in coffee is not my thing).
Price tag is less important.
Looks are not important.
It's maybe also important to know, that I'm a coffee lover, but I'm not really into spending all my time fiddling with grinder, machine and all that to get an absolutely perfect result :-) I'd rather drink ok coffee with a minimum of fuss. Can any of you coffee geeks help me out and point me in the right direction?
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,604 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 3:45am Subject: Re: Help for choosing the right machine
Getting a decent espresso without having to mind things like proper grinding, dosing, tamping, brew temperature or extraction time is like wanting to wash without getting wet.
What you seem to be looking for is an acceptable compromise with an emphasis on convenience.
Even though I consider it not being real espresso (wrong dose, wrong volume) and am far from being a fan of capsule systems, my advise for you is to take a look at a Nespresso machine. There are very small models, they warm up quickly and make a sort of facsimile of espresso that's close enough for a lot of people. With a Nespresso you'll have absolutely no fuss.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
davidjacobjensen Senior Member Joined: 4 Oct 2011 Posts: 3 Location: Copenhagen Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 4:45am Subject: Re: Help for choosing the right machine
Thanks NobbyR! I can see from your answer that I was a bit unclear in first post: I'm not into capsule machines and I do mind grinding, dosing, tamping etc. Call me a pragmatic hobbyist and a beginner. Saying that I seek an acceptable compromise is spot on.
By the way, I am researching grinders as well, but as I understand it, I should find the right espresso machine first. So when I say "a minimum of fuss" I mean it in a relative way :-)
And the same goes for the other statements like "warm up quickly" - they are relative to the world of semiautomatic espresso machines. Capsule coffee makers are not my cup of... well coffee :-)
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 5:18am Subject: Re: Help for choosing the right machine
For your use, I would say La Peppina is a great choice if you don't mind a bit of learning(not even that much as compared to a pump machine). It's a lever machine though and does not have the 3 way solenoid. But other than that, it fits your description perfectly. For me, it made the best shots up to date. It's an open boiler espresso machine so temperature is easily manageable and stable. No pump noise at all, relatively small and heats up quickly. BUT. you do need to have an excellent grinder to pair with such a good machine as mentioned by NobbyR. Otherwise, it's a waste. The advise here you would normally see is to get a grinder first, not the machine. It's counterintuitive, but that's the way it is to get the best coffee. Better to end up with just a grinder without machine, than with a machine but no grinder. With a good grinder, you can still have great brew coffee. With just the machine, you end up with crap espresso. :P
I've heard Arrarex Caravel works similarly well also. I've only used La Peppina so can only recommend that. ;-)
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,604 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 5:34am Subject: Re: Help for choosing the right machine
davidjacobjensen Said:
...I can see from your answer that I was a bit unclear in first post: I'm not into capsule machines and I do mind grinding, dosing, tamping etc. Call me a pragmatic hobbyist and a beginner. Saying that I seek an acceptable compromise is spot on...
That's good to hear, because I don't like Nespresso either.
davidjacobjensen Said:
...By the way, I am researching grinders as well, but as I understand it, I should find the right espresso machine first. So when I say "a minimum of fuss" I mean it in a relative way...
You're wrong there. The grinder is more important than the machine. You can make a decent espresso using top grinder and a mediocre mechine, but not out of a great machine using an inferior grinder. For example, of a $1,000 budget you should spend around $300 on the grinder. It's wiser to get an excellent grinder first and then start looking for a machine that fits yours needs and budget.
davidjacobjensen Said:
...And the same goes for the other statements like "warm up quickly" - they are relative to the world of semiautomatic espresso machines...
davidjacobjensen Senior Member Joined: 4 Oct 2011 Posts: 3 Location: Copenhagen Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 8:24am Subject: Re: Help for choosing the right machine
samuellaw178 Said:
For your use, I would say La Peppina is a great choice if you don't mind a bit of learning(not even that much as compared to a pump machine). It's a lever machine though and does not have the 3 way solenoid. But other than that, it fits your description perfectly.
Thanks! That's very interesting. I hadn't even considered that type of machine - and you and point about the grinder makes a lot of sense. I'm researching the La Peppina right now. :-)
NobbyR Said:
You're wrong there. The grinder is more important than the machine. It's wiser to get an excellent grinder first and then start looking for a machine that fits yours needs and budget.
As far as choosing a machine is concerned, you should read this: click here.
I somehow overlooked that guide (sorry!) - it's excellent! Thanks! What I meant was that by reading a lot of reviews I got the impression, that some machines are more particular about the grinding than others (and some parings of machines and grinders are better than others) and it would make sense to settle on an espresso machine and then find an appropriate grinder. But still, I plan to buy both at the same time.
Regarding my budget I haven't set a limit, but I'm probably looking for something in the $1,500-$2,000 price range. And in that range, the guide says I should aim for a $400-$500 grinder :-)
caffeinatedjen Senior Member Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 297 Location: michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Bezzera B707 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Roaster: Behmor
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 9:24am Subject: Re: Help for choosing the right machine
Bezzera B707's are pretty compact for an HX machine and heat up fairly fast, and within your budget, if you are interested in an HX machine. Click Here (www.1st-line.com)
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 1:49pm Subject: Re: Help for choosing the right machine
samuellaw178 Said:
For your use, I would say La Peppina is a great choice if you don't mind a bit of learning(not even that much as compared to a pump machine). It's a lever machine though and does not have the 3 way solenoid. But other than that, it fits your description perfectly. For me, it made the best shots up to date. It's an open boiler espresso machine so temperature is easily manageable and stable. No pump noise at all, relatively small and heats up quickly. BUT. you do need to have an excellent grinder to pair with such a good machine as mentioned by NobbyR. Otherwise, it's a waste. The advise here you would normally see is to get a grinder first, not the machine. It's counterintuitive, but that's the way it is to get the best coffee. Better to end up with just a grinder without machine, than with a machine but no grinder. With a good grinder, you can still have great brew coffee. With just the machine, you end up with crap espresso. :P
I've heard Arrarex Caravel works similarly well also. I've only used La Peppina so can only recommend that. ;-)
+1 based on the description of needing to be a relatively fast heat-up, for shots-only, quiet, small, etc, I was going to recommend a small spring lever as well! I think it would be an excellent choice. If you feel the need to go a little bigger or more ornate the Micro Casa a Leva is about the highest end machine in that size/use class for quite a bit more money.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,604 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 10:55pm Subject: Re: Help for choosing the right machine
davidjacobjensen Said:
...Regarding my budget I haven't set a limit, but I'm probably looking for something in the $1,500-$2,000 price range. And in that range, the guide says I should aim for a $400-$500 grinder :-)
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