Sturgeonx Senior Member Joined: 17 Oct 2011 Posts: 10 Location: Sherbrooke, QC Expertise: Just starting
Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011, 10:08am Subject: boiler with HX or Boiler with thermo block? What are the differences
I am still researching which machine to buy. There are only 2 people drinking coffee and my wife will be drinking lattes or capuccino and I will be drinking espresso's and latte also.
I am convinced I need more that a single boiler. What are the difference with the HX or thermo block systems. In terms of operation, time to steam, taste etc. Is there one easier to use than the other.
As for Units to buy the CC1 looks intereting for price point of view. I was also looking at the quick mill sylvano and the Bezzera BZ07. I can't seem to find many reviews of the CC1 as its new and the Bezzera either.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,683 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011, 12:20pm Subject: Re: boiler with HX or Boiler with thermo block? What are the differences
They are two totally different machines. The thermo block is a mass of metal that has been heated to temp which when water is run through it, the water flash heats. You may have a small brew boiler and a tb for steam or you may heat both brew and steam with a tb. Tb machines are known for not being very stable temp wise, though when used for steam, tight temp regulation isn't so much of an issue.
The hx machine is a large boiler held at temp with a tube running through it to heat the brew water. The tube is designed to allow constant production of drinks at a constant temp.
A machine like the cc1 or an hx can pull shota and steam at the same time, no additional heat up time for steaming. All quality espresso machines need half an hour or more on average to become temp stable.
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Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011, 12:34pm Subject: Re: boiler with HX or Boiler with thermo block? What are the differences
calblacksmith Said:
A machine like the cc1... can pull shota and steam at the same time, no additional heat up time for steaming. All quality espresso machines need half an hour or more on average to become temp stable.
The Crossland CC1 can't pull a shot and steam at the same time - the QuickMill Silvano with a boiler, steam thermoblock and extra pump for steam can steam milk and pull a shot at the same time.
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
Sturgeonx Senior Member Joined: 17 Oct 2011 Posts: 10 Location: Sherbrooke, QC Expertise: Just starting
Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011, 7:12pm Subject: Re: boiler with HX or Boiler with thermo block? What are the differences
Thanks for the information regarding the differences.
If you were to compared a mahine like sylvano with the thermoblock and extra pump to a HX machine what would be the difference in operating it? would one be easier or more time consuming than the other?
What about taste?
I know the grinder has a major part of it. I plan on buying a Vario.
Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011, 7:30pm Subject: Re: boiler with HX or Boiler with thermo block? What are the differences
Some general comments: Thermoblocks for steaming come on more budget-minded machines. These also tend to have a smaller footprint. Smaller boiler, smaller heating element, less metal, lower cost, and less performance when it comes to steaming. They steam "OK," but can't compare to most HX machines. HX machines are generally larger with larger-capacity boilers. These have the potential to offer greater steaming power, shorter recovery times (if there is a recovery time at all), and they not only allow continuous operation but also allow concurrent extraction and steaming. They are larger and use more metal, thus usually cost more.
Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011, 7:46pm Subject: Re: boiler with HX or Boiler with thermo block? What are the differences
Sturgeonx Said:
I am still researching which machine to buy. There are only 2 people drinking coffee and my wife will be drinking lattes or capuccino and I will be drinking espresso's and latte also.
I am convinced I need more that a single boiler. What are the difference with the HX or thermo block systems. In terms of operation, time to steam, taste etc. Is there one easier to use than the other.
As for Units to buy the CC1 looks intereting for price point of view. I was also looking at the quick mill sylvano and the Bezzera BZ07. I can't seem to find many reviews of the CC1 as its new and the Bezzera either.
You say you want a couple drinks at a time - do you want to heat up a couple liters of water for almost an hour to above boiling to accomplish this? I decided I will not be running a cafe out of my house in the near future so I "settled" for less of a power bill, less heat time, and less emptying the drip tray since I will not be performing cooling flushes. I can only steam till my water reservoir runs empty though.
Sometimes you have to compare what you want and match the machine to the need. If I ever upgrade from the Silvano it will be to a Vivaldi, not an E-61 HX. I like settings that enhance my experience and PID temp controls and easy to adjust pressure give me the features I need to enjoy espresso. Better coffee and grinders will make more difference for me once variability in the espresso machine is tamed.
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
Sturgeonx Senior Member Joined: 17 Oct 2011 Posts: 10 Location: Sherbrooke, QC Expertise: Just starting
Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011, 8:48pm Subject: Re: boiler with HX or Boiler with thermo block? What are the differences
EricBNC Said:
You say you want a couple drinks at a time - do you want to heat up a couple liters of water for almost an hour to above boiling to accomplish this? I decided I will not be running a cafe out of my house in the near future so I "settled" for less of a power bill, less heat time, and less emptying the drip tray since I will not be performing cooling flushes. I can only steam till my water reservoir runs empty though.
Sometimes you have to compare what you want and match the machine to the need. If I ever upgrade from the Silvano it will be to a Vivaldi, not an E-61 HX. I like settings that enhance my experience and PID temp controls and easy to adjust pressure give me the features I need to enjoy espresso. Better coffee and grinders will make more difference for me once variability in the espresso machine is tamed.
I actually visited a shop the other day, and the salesman tried to push the Vivaldi unit, Its a nice unit looks easy to operate but overkill for my needs and the price is high too. They had a sylvano there but said he didn't like it, but during that time I knew very little about it. I think he was just trying to sell me the more expensive unit.
The more and more I look at it the sylvano looks like the right machine for me.
The QuickMill Silvano will probably serve your needs at an affordable budget. And with the Vario you'll be ready for anything, even if you should decide to upgrade your machine one day to some prosumer HX, for example.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
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